Dun vs. Neck Capes

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

A quick note for any beginning saltwater tyer.... I always enjoy reading good quality info about tying materials - particularly about saddles and necks - but for my purposes most of those great materials - aren't worth much to me at all... Over the years I did have great use for grizzly saddles - but only the #2 saddle from Metz - I just never had the need for much else in the way of patches (or necks... )... The only exception to that came about halfway through my years as a commercial tyer and those were very specifically saltwater grizzly necks, natural and dyed from Wapsi Fly (and I believe they were from capons not natural roosters at all... ).

For my uses simple good quality strung saddles and necks were always in demand -and for saddles I was always looking for wide, webby, and long saddles (finding high quality strung saddles these days is difficult - it was much easier years ago before SARS and other related bird diseases really messed up the source that most of these materials came from (China and southeast Asia...).

Once again I'm in awe of what our serious domestic breeders have been able to accomplish for the tying world - but they rarely have much utility  in my world....  And for saltwater tyers everywhere, these days most new patterns are done with synthetics - not natural materials at all.  That development in recent years has me feeling like a dinosaur by comparison since I'm still using mostly natural materials - but in a much lower grade than most freshwater tyers find satisfactory.. 

[Moshup 0]

Capt Bob you seem to always have very nice saddles on your flies. Nice volume if I can remember correctly.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

I’m actually still operating with materials purchased more than 30 years ago in some cases and when that movie, Avatar, came along I was able to resist selling off even at five or more times what I paid - all those years ago.. Wholesale prices were actually quite reasonable years and years ago… 

I’m still not doing any production tying (except for bucktails) and until that changes I have most of what I need in the way of saddles and necks (if I can keep them bug free…).

[MK19 0]

Excellent Inputs gentleman.......THANK YOU all for taking the time for me, much appreciated.

Sandran: As I'm fortunate to live on the Fryingpan, I have to call that my home water and those are the small bugs I'm really looking at tying. But I also spend time on the Roaring Fork, and there's quite a bit of commonality in those insects, and on the Colorado too. If I'm up higher on the smaller creeks, the general attractors are typically just fine.

An interesting side note: I spent some time on the phone with Charlie Collins, and one point he made was that he'd bread for size 12-16 where he indicated most of his customers tied. Not that he can't select for smaller or larger sizes. But when he does, he tells me his selection gets smaller. Nice guy, very generous with hos time. 

Thanks again all.

[Sandan 0]

2 hours ago, MK19 said:

Excellent Inputs gentleman.......THANK YOU all for taking the time for me, much appreciated.

Sandran: As I'm fortunate to live on the Fryingpan, I have to call that my home water and those are the small bugs I'm really looking at tying. But I also spend time on the Roaring Fork, and there's quite a bit of commonality in those insects, and on the Colorado too. If I'm up higher on the smaller creeks, the general attractors are typically just fine.

An interesting side note: I spent some time on the phone with Charlie Collins, and one point he made was that he'd bread for size 12-16 where he indicated most of his customers tied. Not that he can't select for smaller or larger sizes. But when he does, he tells me his selection gets smaller. Nice guy, very generous with hos time. 

Thanks again all.

The pan is a great fishery abs is the fork. You'll probably find that the PMDs on the pan are more pinkish than yellowish.  

[SalarMan 0]

We're talking about an animal with a brain the size of a pea...and that's when the fish weighs 5 pounds or more. Just buy a basic assortment of quality necks and do some tying. Grizzly, medium dun, ginger and brown. Those feathers will take you a long way. Like I said in my earlier post...keep it simple!!! My ties are as simple and easy as it gets...and guess what? I've caught LOTS of fish over the years. Good lord guys...these fish are basically stupid. Make the presentation look like food and they will eat - period.

[Moshup 0]

1 hour ago, SalarMan said:

We're talking about an animal with a brain the size of a pea...and that's when the fish weighs 5 pounds or more. Just buy a basic assortment of quality necks and do some tying. Grizzly, medium dun, ginger and brown. Those feathers will take you a long way. Like I said in my earlier post...keep it simple!!! My ties are as simple and easy as it gets...and guess what? I've caught LOTS of fish over the years. Good lord guys...these fish are basically stupid. Make the presentation look like food and they will eat - period.

This coming from a guy that ties elaborate salmon flies for salmo salar whose brains aren’t much larger. 😳

[SalarMan 0]

Their brains aren't any larger😁 The salmon flies I have fished with are much simpler of course, but they are more of an attractor or lure...not a food imitation. The elaborate stuff is just a fun tying exercise and challenge.

[mikechell 0]

10 hours ago, SalarMan said:

...keep it simple!!!  Good lord guys...these fish are basically stupid. Make the presentation look like food and they will eat - period.

 

3 hours ago, SalarMan said:

The elaborate stuff is just a fun tying exercise and challenge.

So, which side of the fence are you on?  Never mind ... just noticing the oxymoronic gist of your comments.

[niveker 0]

10 hours ago, SalarMan said:

keep it simple

While shore fishing the neighborhood lake Friday evening I struck up conversation with another fly fisher in his kayak and of course we're talking about what we have tied on.  He's only here on week-ends and he forgot his fly boxes, so he fishing a piece of foam pipe insulation tied on a hook with a red feather, as that was all he could scrounge up, and he's catching bluegill and bass on every cast, LOL. 

So yeah, you can keep it simple and dumb it down to the very basics, but I really enjoy the read when a new member ask a question like this and everyone chimes in with their years of experience and opinions.  

[SalarMan 0]

1 hour ago, mikechell said:

 

So, which side of the fence are you on?  Never mind ... just noticing the oxymoronic gist of your comments.

You just don't seem to understand what I am saying. There is a difference between fishing flies and flies to be mounted, admired and enjoyed from the perspective of a tyer's talents and from the perspective of what many tyers think of as art.

I no longer fish due to physical issues, but my 59 years with a fly rod in hand from Central America to Canada, England and the U.S. has given me a great deal of knowledge which I have always shared with my fellow fly fishermen. The #1 item on my list is simplicity. Too many fly fishermen suffer from paralysis by analysis. Simple flies with a close match for size and color will catch fish anywhere, anytime. EXPERIENCE has shown me that is all too true.

[MK19 0]

I took your collective advice and shopped the Whiting 100 Paks. As I did that on Feather emporium, I found "Cape Tops" for $4 to $6 each that look just right. So I bought 9 for $45, in a wide range of colors etc. This will give me a range to play/learn with on the cheap. Then as I home in I can invest in full or half capes when I have greater confidence in selections.  

Sandan: Yes, our PMD's are pinkish and with a Darkish ginger hackle is one of my favorite patterns. 

[SalarMan 0]

1 hour ago, MK19 said:

I took your collective advice and shopped the Whiting 100 Paks. As I did that on Feather emporium, I found "Cape Tops" for $4 to $6 each that look just right. So I bought 9 for $45, in a wide range of colors etc. This will give me a range to play/learn with on the cheap. Then as I home in I can invest in full or half capes when I have greater confidence in selections.  

Sandan: Yes, our PMD's are pinkish and with a Darkish ginger hackle is one of my favorite patterns. 

Be forewarned...Feather Emporium has a rather bad rep when it comes to delivery. You won't find many if any good reviews on this site or others.

[flytire 0]

well i ordered 4 whiting american hen necks and a full guinea fowl skin from feather emporium on may 24 and received them on may 27. pretty good service if you ask me. i personally have never had a problem with them.

however some have not been so lucky

[gillage 0]

2 minutes ago, flytire said:

however some have not been so lucky

Amen, self included