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Swamp Fly

Tippet Rings

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Thanks Sandan and Silver. I'm ordering two spools of maxima. 

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I've just begun to experiment with Rio's tippet rings - but for a different purpose than most... I'll be tying the ring to the bitter end of my usual 20lb fluoro tippet (salt or brackish waters where we're usually using heavier leaders if we're not targeting bonefish or permit..) then using a haywire twist to add a three inch piece of #3 Malin's stainless trolling wire (coffee colored) to be able to toss our flies at toothy critters like mackeral or small sharks (under 4 feet in size).  So far the rings have stood up well -and the very light wire mates well with those small rings as well so I'm hopeful it will be something to add to our arsenal... When you try to use really light wire spliced to tippet with an Albright or similar knot it's very difficult to get a good strong connection... 

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Had not considered that.  Good idea.  I had decided to not use tippet rings for my saltwater fishing because mackerel and needle fish like to attack leader knots zipping through the water when fighting a fish.  For attaching a wire bite you don't add a target that isn't already there.  Are you using the 2mm or 3mm rings?

 

Swamp

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So, I got all the materials to tie these leaders, tied one so far, using a blood knot to connect the butt and transition.  I'm having a hard time getting the blood knot to settle correctly due to the stiffness of the .020 MC . 

Any of youse guys have any tips on getting it to settle correctly?  An alternate knot to use?  I was thinking a double uni knot, maybe.  I really don't care for the aesthetics of a surgeons knot (I confess, I'm a knot snob).  

Thanks in advance.  

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Generally speaking, whenever I have issues with blood knots it is because of the number of turns I'm using.  I find each brand is a little different in how many turns the different diameters need.  How hard or soft the mono is plays a big role in the number or turns. If the knot doesn't settle it is usually unbalanced, one side or the other having too many turns. It may not even the side that is misbehaving that needs adjusting.   If the mono is soft the knot around it can bite into it more and keep the running end from sliding through it well enough to tighten the knot on the other side.  If the mono is hard knots came slip without enough turns.  Experiment with the two diameters and then apply to your leader.  I've "used up" more than one leader tying and re-tying knots till I got it right.  Better to do that with lines coming off of the spools first.  Same thing applies to any wrapped knot, not just blood knots.

I have a tendency to use too many turns (too much of a good thing).  It is surprising to me how few turns is "correct" sometimes.  I remember talking to a well knows Keys tarpon guide years ago and he used 3 1/2 turn knots for some monofilaments. Kind of freaky but I messed with it and the knots held.

Hope that makes sense.

 

Swamp

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7 hours ago, Swamp Fly said:

whenever I have issues with blood knots it is because of the number of turns I'm using

Thanks Swamp, I think you are right, using a 5/7 turns, the knot seems to seat better, still kind of ugly though. I guess I need a little more practice tying with this thick line. 

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2 hours ago, niveker said:

Thanks Swamp, I think you are right, using a 5/7 turns, the knot seems to seat better, still kind of ugly though. I guess I need a little more practice tying with this thick line. 

There was a blood knot test done by Fly Fisherman magazine many, many years ago.

Just as you suggest, the strongest knots had 5 to 7 turns on each side. 

But more than that, they showed that the strongest knots "grabbed" the same length of line on each side. So the thinner line had more turns on the thicker line.

If the knot grabbed a shorter length of line on one side, the turns on that side tended to slip when the knot was put under greater and greater tension.

So I make 5 turns with the thicker line and 6 or 7 with the thinner line.

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A few years back I abandoned the blood knot entirely - instead, for me, it's either a uni to uni (with the turns varied - less turns for the larger diameter (heavier) line, more turns for the smaller diameter line (lighter)), or the Slim Beauty (which it little more than half a blood knot for the light line and a two turn uni for the heavier line).  That Slim Beauty, an Australian knot, comes in very close to 100% line strength when done properly - much stronger than any blood knot... and  it makes a smaller connection, all told...

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On 7/9/2022 at 7:55 AM, SilverCreek said:

There was a blood knot test done by Fly Fisherman magazine many, many years ago.

Just as you suggest, the strongest knots had 5 to 7 turns on each side. 

But more than that, they showed that the strongest knots "grabbed" the same length of line on each side. So the thinner line had more turns on the thicker line.

If the knot grabbed a shorter length of line on one side, the turns on that side tended to slip when the knot was put under greater and greater tension.

So I make 5 turns with the thicker line and 6 or 7 with the thinner line.

I saw the same thing on a knot shoot-out, maybe trident fly fishing. Anyhow I use 4 turns of the. 020 and 5 of the .013. I haven't had any failures after like 3 years. Also I coat the knots with knot sense to smooth their travel through the guides.

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1 hour ago, Sandan said:

I use 4 turns of the. 020 and 5 of the .013.

Thanks Sandan.  I was reluctant to go below 5 turns on any side, I'll give your suggestion a try also.  

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3 hours ago, niveker said:

Thanks Sandan.  I was reluctant to go below 5 turns on any side, I'll give your suggestion a try also.  

NP. I find that more turns at those diameters just don't seat well. Maybe it's me,  but reducing a turn hasn't caused any problems

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9 hours ago, Sandan said:

NP. I find that more turns at those diameters just don't seat well. Maybe it's me,  but reducing a turn hasn't caused any problems

The tippet will break before the knot slips. No harm, no foul.

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1 hour ago, SilverCreek said:

The tippet will break before the knot slips. No harm, no foul.

Yessiree. Don't ask me how I know that. 😉

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