Fly Tying Thread

[flytire 0]

When you tie with one brand of thread long enough you get a feel for that thread

I use veevus 12/0 threads for most of the flies I tie but I have noticed lately it seems like it is much larger than 12/0, more like 6/0 or 8/0

It builds up faster than 12/0 thread should

Maybe the spools are mislabeled? I don't know

Do I stick with veevus but use 14/0 or 16/0?

Anybody else have that experience with the brand of thread you use?

Time to switch brands? Ultra-thread? Nano silk?

 

[mikechell 0]

Of all the people on this site to have an issue with thread, you're the last one I'd expect.  But your issue, indeed, would only be noticed by one who has exceptional skill and experience.  The differences you're noticing might be the same kind of reason sugar went from 5 pound bags to 4 pound bags while keeping the price the same.  The quality and supply that Veevus gets aren't the same, and the end product that you get feels off.  If I had the same question, you are one of the current members I'd go to for an answer, so I definitely can't give you an answer.

Also, I started tying using sewing thread, and still use it on some of my flies.   All of my tying threads were purchased on sales or because I wanted a specific color ... not by brand.  

Good luck with whatever choice you make.

[Poopdeck 0]

I never understood what veevus thread numbers relate to. 12/0 veevus has always felt like 8/0 uni to me but with a flatter lay. 

[DarrellP 0]

I notices some inconsistency in Vevus, it seems.  It seems very similar in size to Uni 8/0.  Vevus seems stronger but less easy to handle, maybe.  Norm, you probably know more than any of us, but I think you are right.  BTW, I got some nano silk to try, but haven't tried it yet.  I have had it for a while, just sitting in my thread box.

[SilverCreek 0]

Thread manufacturers mislead and Veevus is one thread manufacturer that I do not trust for the reasons below (see photo).

Here's the deal. The strength of a tying thread depends on the material and the amount of that material used to make that thread.

The aught (eg, 8/0) system of denoting thread thickness is NOT A STANDARD. Manufacturers can label their thread whatever they want. This has led to "aught creep" with manufacturers using higher aughts to fool tyers into thinking that their thread is thinner than another manufacturer's lower aught.

Threads should be labeled by denier which is a measurement of the actual amount of material in the thread.

http://www.swtu.org/pdfs/fly_tying/Threads.pdf

If seeing is believing consider the hook below which has been wrapped with 40 turns of the thread. Compare the Uni 8/0, to the UTC 70, to the Benecchi 12/0, to the Gordon Griffiths 14/0, to the Veevus 14/0 and 12/0. These threads are all about 70 denier polyester and they have the identical bulk and they ALL BREAK within an oz. of 14 oz. tension.

Why is Veevus 14/0 and 16/0 essentially the same? Why is UNI 8/0 thinner (less material) that Veevus 14/0 and Veevus 16/0?

Pay attention to what material the thread is made from and the color, whether it is bonded or not bonded, and whether it is flat or twisted. Identical diameters of the same material have about the same breaking strength. It is very difficult for a thread maker who buys very little actual material compared to clothing and major sewing thread manufacturers to find a polyester, nylon, or gsp that is stronger per mass than than some other manufacturers polyester, nylon or gsp.

The material determines how vibrant the colors are, whether the thread stretches,  and the breaking strength. Find a thread you like and learn to tie with it.

Here are some more "thread" threads from NAFF:

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/general-fly-tying-discussions/362744-need-stronger-thread.html

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/general-fly-tying-discussions/354747-veevus.html

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/general-fly-tying-discussions/365577-how-important-right-hook-thread.html

 

 

 

[BobHRAH 0]

I have Veevus 12/0 in black only.  It definitely is finer than my Danville Fly Master 6/0. Might there be product inconsistency, or mislabeling as Norm suggests. The Veevus 16/0 is even finer, but also much weaker.  I had usually used Griffiths 14/0 for something finer than my FM, but have been trying the Veevus 12/0 because Norm has been using it regularly.  And, I find the GG and Veevus to be pretty similar. GSP thread is great for hair because of strength, but too slippery for my routine use.  Barry Ord Clark used it for quite a while, but lately has been using GG 14/0 Sheer.  

Thanks, Bob H

[vicrider 0]

I have a dozen bobbin holders set up with different threads, colors and weights. All this discussing /0s and deneers is over my head but I do know I use Veesus as much as possible and find it strong, consistent, and finer in diameter than other threads per labeled /0 size. I'll stick with Veesus and am not going to start micing the threads to see if they vary. I'm sure they will.

 

[utyer 0]

All well and good, but after 15 years, I will stick with Gutermann Skala thread at 15 cents a spool.  Plenty strong enough for me, and very little bulk. 

[flytire 0]

thank you for the education regarding fly tying thread. good stuff for beginners

my problem is not about different brands of thread and how they wrap around a hook shank

my problem was about veevus thread. so i'll try again

i have been using veevus thread for a number of years. after finishing a spool of 12/0 black veevus thread, i tied a new fly with a new spool of thread. it was then that I noticed the thread was a little bit larger the previous thread i had tied with. the spool is labeled 12/0 but i dont feel it is 12/0. in my visual inspection it is bigger. it even feels thicker when extracting thread from the bobbin holder to tie it onto the hook shank

its quite possible the spool is mislabeled. threads are manufactured in the same factory regardless of sizes. its quite possible spools got mislabeled

to veevus thread users - have you noticed any thickness differences from one spool to another of a particular size (12/0) in thread thickness?

thank you 

norm

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

My thread problems (only occasional so far...) are a bit different than most tyers since I'm buying in bulk (thread spools by the box of 12 in one color) and I'm never buying any thread smaller than the old 3/0 monocord - 90% of my thread is Danville's flat waxed nylon (or anything similar in a 210 denier thread...).  My problem?  Occasionally I'll get a box of thread that isn't the normal color I expect (and consistency is something every commercial tyer tries to achieve when filling orders... something I learned so long ago that it just habit now...).

My usual course of action is to set that box aside and re-order (sometimes to another brand if it has the color I need).  I will try to find a use for the off color (sometimes darker - sometimes lighter) thread if possible - but it's just one more hassle in the materials game... thank heavens I'm also doing bucktail jigs in quantity - that's where that wrong thread will probably end up...  I'm no longer tying flies commercially but still doing lures as fast as the orders come in... when my guiding bookings slow down... 

[bruce deringon 0]

Must be simply mislabeled, but it’s possible that the newer threads they supply have changed. I use 14, for most flies. 

[Fruitrollup 0]

Here is a compilation of various thread products for the tying community, and some information on the composition of tying threads.  I hope it brings some new information to the forum.  https://globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-blues 

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

On the issue of tying threads - currently I'm struggling with supply issues...  My wholesaler reports that shipments from Danville have been a bit uneven... Twice now I've ordered a particular color and been told that my wholesaler doesn't have it since Danville hasn't produced it and they have no idea if and when it will be included in their ordinary course of business.  Guess I'll be using Uni instead - still in that large 210 denier size and praying it will come close to the actual color I've been using forever... 

[flyflinger 0]

Deeeeep rabbit hole!  To answer the original question from Flytire, I have not noticed any change in Veevus 12/0 thread build-up.  But in fairness, I jump around from fly types and size so much that I might not notice it (even if it were so).  Veevus has some odd characteristics - "all of the Veevus middle-sized threads (8/0, 10 /0, 12/0 and 14/0) are built in a conventional fashion with a bit of twist but with the ability to be flattened beautifully by unwinding, while both their largest and smallest sizes (6/0 and 16/0) are built of just two intertwined strands in a counterclockwise twist." (from Charlie Cravens article)  https://charliesflybox.com/blogs/archived-fly-tying-articles/thread-a-tangled-mess

To support SilverCreek's comments, all thread should use denier, which actually has a defined standard, vs X/0 "aught system" which is purely the manufacturers fabrication. (Semperfli Classic Waxed Thread gives you both, which I like!)  The bottom line is that I frequently experiment with different thread manufacturers and their various "sizes" to determine the best thread for a particular fly/size.  I tie mostly small flies which puts me in the arena where thread build-up is a concern.  This is also true of larger flies with many complex layers and alignments of material like some of the masterpieces Flytire and others create.  I also favor threads that I can flatten or cord up, by simply spinning the bobbin. (e.g.: UTC Ultra Thread 70 denier)   

And don't get me started on that hateful GSP (gel-spun polyethylene) stuff! . . . useful, but aggravatingly slippery! . . .          

Regards,