dumbell eye placement

[richmce 0]

watched a gunnar brammer video on his seasoned geezer fly. it calls for a size 4 4xlong, DOWN  eye hook. small eye are placed  on the barb side[opposite of a clouser]  . never seen that before   has anyone used a fly like that?

[Philly 0]

Rich, here's one that we tied in my salt water club's weekly Zoom tying session.  It called a Pickerel fly.   In the video there was an underwater shot of it being retrieved.  It has an up-down motion, basically a wave motion.  The hook I used was either 2xl or 3xl, straight eye.  Another way to get some additional action in a baitfish/streamer pattern..  Plan to fish it when I'm up in Ontario next week.

   

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Where you place eyes on the hook shank directly affects the attitude of your fly as it sinks - nose down, level, or tail down… That, in turn, imparts different movement to your fly as you strip it in with pauses between strips trying to entice a strike.

Eyes, lead or beadchain, are often an important feature in the flies I tie for the salt… and I’ll occasionally use different sized metal eyes to achieve different effects.  The same way that different hooks (heavier or lighter, larger or smaller) with the same pattern can produce different outcomes… 

Take a close look at where the eyes are tied in on the original Clouser Deep Minnow (something that many variations miss…).   Hope this helps…  Here's a few pics of patterns with eyes - both lead and beadchain in a variety of sizes and positions for different effects... 

This big Tarpon Snake pattern (4/0 heavy, extra strong hook) works quite well on big fish - big tarpon particularly in many colors.. If I tie it with lead eyes - tarpon won't eat it at all...

Crystal Schminnow (#4 hook) is a great pattern when fish are feeding on small minnows - I also do few with plastic eyes that suspend instead of sink for working very shallow waters...  

These "bonefish clousers" are in two sizes, #4 on the left, #6 hooks on the right - note that each size actually has different sized lead eyes...and that with the sparse wing on top each sinks nose down and can be stripped with a jigging or hopping action along the bottom since bonefish feed mostly on the bottom (but not always...).

 

Both by changing the size and material of the various eyes  you use - but also by changing the placement - you can achieve remarkably different attitude and motion in a given pattern that's going to be worked as opposed to drifted (like a dry fly...).  I've even tied clousers on long shank hooks with the eyes just forward of the hook's bend - to provide a long bit of  bare hook shank between where the leader is tied and the actual body of the "fly" - specifically meant to allow the angler to fish a pattern without using a wire leader that long shanked hook is the "wire leader" preventing cut-offs from mackeral, barracuda, and other toothy critters...

 

 

[richmce 0]

bob, being able to create a fly with various eyes, location on the hook and size and weight of the hook is one of the main reasons we tie our own flies    great photos too. but in your many years of fishing have you found a reason to tie the eyes,bead chain etc on the barb side of the hook. ?

[Poopdeck 0]

I’ve accidentally tied clousers with that orientation and since I rarely cut a fly apart unless it’s torn apart, I’ve also fished them upside down weight, color and movement. Would you believe you can’t tell if you have right or a wrong clouser on. I watched the beginning of the video and chuckled at how he said he came up with the concept to use for fishing only skinny high water. 

[Philly 0]

Placing the eyes on the bottom of the shank allows the hook to ride "normally", hook point down.  The way most of the flies we tie do.   As Captain Bob mentioned where you place the eyes impacts the action of the fly.   The Clouser Minnow is a good example.  Clouser is very specific in his tying instructions that eyes should be tied in 1/3 the length of the hook shank behind the eyes.  Tie them in right behind the eye and you have a bucktail jig rather than a Clouser minnow.   This year I changed the placement of the dumbbell eyes on my crayfish pattern.  I had been tying them right behind the hook eye.  This year I tied them in Clouser style looking to get a different action and change how they would sit on the bottom.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Funny story, since I’m not exactly a purist - I’ll fish with any kind of gear (or technique) short of hand grenades ( don’t ask…).  An outfit I buy plastic tails from didn’t have the color I needed but did have lots of rejects (colors reversed) that I could pick up for very little cost.  I bought a few hundred and they worked so well that I came back and bought 500 of them.  Hope they don’t catch on since I’ll buy them again… if they have them.

 

Things we’re certain will work -don’t  -and things that shouldn’t work, might just surprise you. 

[DarrellP 0]

Capt Bob, any idea how many flies you go through in a year?

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Not nearly enough... when you're working as a guide you're fishing just about any anglers that are interested... My fly fishing, although I was a commercial tyer for many years and even wrote a chapter for a book on the topic... is only 15 to 20% of my bookings.  The ads that I used to run in magazines always noted "beginners welcome" and I really mean it... I've had folks on my skiff who've never held a rod before - ever...  After a few hours I have them actually casting, retrieving, using artificials if at all possible, etc.  My favorite days, of course,  are when I have fly anglers aboard and we're some distance into the backcountry over a variety of fish...  Must admit as well, that I get a kick out of having kids on board -

and for small kids an opportunity to try to grab a live bait from my livewell  (with bare hands of course...) is sure to improve a slow day.... For kids I'm focusing on action as opposed to size - and for kids almost any specie is a treat... 

 

I learned long ago that our flies needed to be nearly weedless (actually snag-less if at all possible - some patterns won't allow you to do that...) since we're working mangrove jungle shorelines.  I also learned early on that I can fish two anglers at the same time - someone with a fly rod in the bow while his (or her) partner is using spinning or plug-casting gear in the stern - and they rarely conflict... Matter of fact each kind of gear compliments the other - not exactly what you see on TV shows... Great fun when my anglers are occasionally both hooked up at the same time - but it's real trouble if the fish are giant tarpon and you're up a small river somewhere...  Another point to emphasize - it's always a great idea to match rod size to the fish you're aiming at... A nice 5wt rod works well for exotics like peacock bass, cichlids, and oscars in freshwater canals (also on baby tarpon, less than five pounds), while a big tarpon really does need a heavy 12wt or 11 wt rod for the angler to have much of a chance of winning.  Lastly I do my best to match fly line type to the situations we face.  An ordinary floating line works very well for rod sizes up to about a 9wt - while my heavier rods, 10wt and larger all are set up with a full Intermediate line...   Many days you won't find a fly rod on my skiff since the folks I'm fishing simply have never learned to use one... Other days I'll usually keep one spinner on board and every other rod is a fly rod in a range of sizes - to match my angler's needs... 

 

If at all possible I'll also re-cycle chewed up or damaged flies (saving the parts that are usable then re-tying on eyes, collar, and/or weedguard).   There also times when "re-cycling" means saving whatever you can from an old fly - and re-tying that pattern on a new hook (salt is hard on gear- and the fish themselves are quite capable of damaging a hook beyond repair... On more than one occasion I've noted that a slightly chewed on fly will out-produce a nice new one... Not something you'll hear from folks selling flies, of course... Lastly, many of my fly anglers are making the transition from freshwaters to the salt - where it's an entirely different game in many respects.  My best days are when I can assist someone new to the salt to be able to succeed... 

 

As an old TV show used to say "My world - and welcome to it"...

[DarrellP 0]

For dumbell eyes, someone posted to lay the eye along the length of the shat, starting behind the eye.  The rear end marks the tie in point.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Works for clousers but each pattern is different and has different requirements.  The fish are our judges if a fly doesn't swim right or hold the profile you want - turn it into a wall ornament (after trying to figure out what needs to change to get a given result...).  That's something I emphasized years ago when I actually ran organized fly tying classes at our local community college (night classes, adult education... but it only lasted a year or two at most... ).  That was very nearly forty years ago... 

[WWKimba 0]

For Clouser's I use popper hooks as the bend is the proper place for the eyes each and every time.

Kim