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Trouttramp

How about a challenge thread?

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Pretty rough but rather than gum up the works and tie another one tomorrow I’ll go with it.

How about a copper John for the next fly?

1A88195F-FDE5-4374-9961-CE0B78B02851.jpeg

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okay here is copper john

Copper-John-1080.jpg

Copper John
 
Hook - 2X heavy, 2X long nymph or streamer hook, sizes 10-20
Bead - Gold or copper
Weight - .015 lead/lead free wire
Thread - Black, brown, red or your choice
Tail - Brown goose or turkey biots
Abdomen - Copper wire
Wing case (top) - Pearl flashabou
Wing case (bottom) - Strip of black thin skin
Thorax - Peacock herl
Legs - Speckled brown hen hackle, Hungarian partridge etc
UV Resin
 
next challenge pattern is - Elk Hair Caddis

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Tyers

Please include the recipes for the fly you tied so that others can tie them for themselves without trying to decipher what materials you used

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My elk hair caddis. 
Gunnison River #8 hook, Blended Muskrat Dubbing body in Bleached Ginger, Brown Saddle Hackle with gold wire, Cabelas light Bull elk hair  crowded the head, but imperfect is what it is  

Next Fly:  Rock Worm

 

420C1527-CDED-4DCD-87B0-F82157315311.jpeg

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I will accept the challenge to do a ROCK WORM.

It might be Saturday before I get time to do it. Lots of family stuff going on here.

Never tied one, looks pretty straight forward.

 

TT

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12 hours ago, Squeezy said:

My elk hair caddis.

Most heads are tied too large, IMO.  I also like to clip the hackle (oh, the horror) on top and bottom a bit, or just leave it off altogether. 

That one will fish, we tyers are much pickier than the trouts.  

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6 minutes ago, niveker said:

Most heads are tied too large, IMO.  I also like to clip the hackle (oh, the horror) on top and bottom a bit, or just leave it off altogether. 

That one will fish, we tyers are much pickier than the trouts.  

I’m quickly becoming an anti-hackle guy. Just seems to get in the way and makes me frustrated. 

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52 minutes ago, Squeezy said:

I’m quickly becoming an anti-hackle guy. Just seems to get in the way and makes me frustrated. 

Here's a pic of an original. You just need to have the clipped hair part a little more back from the eye. Having the right sized hair for the hook size helps big time as well.

 

trothelkcaddis.jpg

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35 minutes ago, mvendon said:

Here's a pic of an original. You just need to have the clipped hair part a little more back from the eye. Having the right sized hair for the hook size helps big time as well.

 

trothelkcaddis.jpg

I have to disagree that the EHC above is an "original." However, unfortunately it is how the EHC is commonly tied these days. That is because the original EHC has been bastardized by almost all fly tyers.

Al Troth is the originator of the EHC.

Al Troth, when he first published his EHC, noted that the EHC should be tied with hair that did not flair, but this type of hair is difficult to find especially for smaller patterns and now virtually every EHC now is tied with a prominent flared wing.

Gary Lafontaine makes the following observation about the dry fly patterns in his book, "There are some notable absences in the selections. There are no patterns with upright wings. This type generally recommended as an imitation of a fluttering caddisfly is not very effective when trout are feeding selectively, even if the adults are fluttering. When the natural begins unfolding its wings it usually flies off very quickly and such a transitory moment is not worth imitating. The tent wing fly is usually better because it imitates the insect at rest."

The second caddis bible is Larry Solomon and Eric Leiser's "The Caddis and the Angler" published in 1977. "The Caddis and the Angler" has the elk hair caddis pattern on pg 200. You will notice that the hair on the pattern is tent like and does NOT flair much. See below for Al Troth's original EHC:

35593315831_1813512a5d_z.jpg

During an interview with Al Troth before his death, Al's son talks about his father's EHC. Go to 5:35 in the video below and you will see the EHC as it is meant to be tied.

35593315811_c71d1866c9.jpg

 

My version tied with low flair hair.

35593315861_14b6a60548_z.jpg

Why then is the EHC so popular? Well it is a great fast water fly and a fluttering caddis fly, it is easily tied, it is a high floater, it is easy to see, and it is durable. But is is NOT IMHO the best fly for calm waters. It is not an all around fly. It can be a better fly for calm waters if you clip the bottom hackles off flat to the hook, and clip off some of flared deer hair to give the wing a flatter profile.

Pre Trimmed Fly

 

50714979877_5b7fee01b0_z.jpg

 

Post Trimmed Fly

 

50714163268_e3f339354e_z.jpg

 

I think it is even better if tied so that the wing flairs less. Here is a tying tip to make the wings flatter.  If you dub the body so that it has a "reverse taper" so that it is thicker at the tail of the fly and then narrows at the head end of the fly, the wing will lie flatter on the body. Then there will be no "bump" at the front edge of the dubbing to lift the wing up.

Another way to tie the fly with a flat wing is to bend the front 1/3 of the hook up at a 30 degree angle. Then tie the hair on this bent section. The 30 degree up angle will angle the tied hair DOWN 30 degrees and it will lie flat over the back of the fly. Tie it in the manner that Gary Borger ties his Poly Caddis

http://www.garyborger.com/2011/06/08/poly-caddis/

Poly-Caddis-2.jpg

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread. If the above makes you examine how you tie the EHC and how the wing really should look, all the better. Hopefully, the next time you try an EHC in the right color and size and the fish refuse, you'll think about this post and trim the fly. 

Best wishes for a wonderful Thanksgiving to everyone.

 

 

 

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Thanks SC.I see commercially tied flies that barely resemble the originals but are still calling by the original name.I realize that many flies come from overseas and are nicely tied but not quite right from what i see in the old books or older videos.Our caddis flies are black and so are our stone flies so black flies outfish others.Black foam spiders and black foam chubby ant type flies catch a lot species especially in creeks.AGs Hippy Stomper has been a good bass fly for me at times.I got a 5lb plus laregemouth on a 3wt rod chasing bluegills a couple years ago on sz 12 HS .I have now tied them up to sz 6 for pond large mouths and creek small mouths usually in all black except for the wing..Had a few gar attack them too.I think the bass will still eat the same type of stuff they did as juveniles.The walleye bite will stop up north when the mayflies hatch as the walleyes and most other fish gorge themselves on the nymphs in the shallows.Frustrating serious walleye anglers as the fish can be too shallow for their boats and what to use for bait at this time.Have had some great days catching crappies on almost any brown nymph in the spring when they are shallow.No trout streams here but am sure the same bug species exist in the surrounding states that do.

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