The problem with high-grade capes

[Gene L 0]

I got a couple of very high grade capes for Christmas.  The problem for me is there are MANY feathers in 16 and smaller, but you have to search for 12s and 14s; they're there, but are hard to find.  Also, there aren't many tailing feathers.  The ones on the sides of the cape are too narrow so I have to go to alternate means of tails.  So, my advice is to stick with Bronze grade unless you're really into tying small flies.  The feathers are uniform and narrow and long; you can usually get at least two flies off one feather.

[Heff2 0]

lol, Sounds like champagne problems Gene.  I struggle to find hackle small enough most of the time.  Maybe you can pick up a few complimentary Indian necks for tailing and larger sizes. 
 

 

[SalarMan 0]

The feathers for tailing do exist on the birds, but the way the growers skin the neck out eliminates them for appearance and marketing purposes. The necks I used to get from the Darbees back in the 70's had plenty of the full variety of sizes and types of feathers for tying dries. The only grower who skinned his birds in the Darbee fashion was Charlie Collins. I know he was planning on retiring a few years ago and if that actually happened is a question mark, because his web site (Collins hackle farm) is still operating. You might try contacting him if for no other reason his necks are as good as any of the big name growers and at a much better price. He also includes the saddle from the bird as part of the purchase.

[Gene L 0]

I'm currently infatuated with Catskill dries, typically a size 12 hook.  Hence the large flies.  Longer than usual hackle, although I don't know why.  

[SalarMan 0]

1 hour ago, Gene L said:

I'm currently infatuated with Catskill dries, typically a size 12 hook.  Hence the large flies.  Longer than usual hackle, although I don't know why.  

I fished Catskill dries almost exclusively for 60+ years for the simple reasons they are things of beauty and they work!!

[cphubert 0]

On 9/9/2024 at 11:48 AM, Gene L said:

Catskill dries, typically a size 12 hook

Charlie Collins was the best source not sure what he has left Id drop him a line all his capes used to have the spade hackles on for tailing. Whitting got greedy and sells them separate, but they do have a nice hackle.

[Sandan 0]

I tied some green drake Quigley cripples last night in size 12. I had no problem finding 12's and 10's on a Whiting bronze grade grizzly cape.  Got 2 or 3 flies from each feather.

[DFoster 0]

On 9/9/2024 at 1:01 PM, SalarMan said:

I fished Catskill dries almost exclusively for 60+ years for the simple reasons they are things of beauty and they work!!

I'm with you George-  I often pass right over the new fangled foam hoppers for a 100 year old Catskill pattern. 
The foam flies work,  but there's something about fishing the traditional stuff I just can't resist.  

[BobHRAH 0]

DFoster, I agree with you about foam hoppers.  Or foam anything. I just hate working with the stuff.  And then if you're supposed to use glue too, I just go nuts.

I may struggle thru 3 or 4 attempts to set quill slip wings on a wet, but at least the result is very satisfying.  Struggle with foam and all you get is some plastic on a hook.  Yeah, I know they catch fish, but so do San Juan Worms and mop flies.  Might as well fish nightcrawlers.   I'll stick to traditional, mainly natural materials.

Thanks, Bob H

[SilverCreek 0]

3 hours ago, BobHRAH said:

DFoster, I agree with you about foam hoppers.  Or foam anything. I just hate working with the stuff.  And then if you're supposed to use glue too, I just go nuts.

I may struggle thru 3 or 4 attempts to set quill slip wings on a wet, but at least the result is very satisfying.  Struggle with foam and all you get is some plastic on a hook.  Yeah, I know they catch fish, but so do San Juan Worms and mop flies.  Might as well fish nightcrawlers.   I'll stick to traditional, mainly natural materials.

Thanks, Bob H

The Morrish Hopper is one of the most effective hopper patterns I tie. It is difficult but worth it in my opinion.

I tie them for hoppers as well as the Salmon Stone fly and the Yellow Sallie Stone fly hatches on the Madison River

This version is one I tied for the Salmon Stone fly.

Hopper version.

Instructions below:

https://hopperfishing.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/how-to-tie-the-morrishs-hopper/

[sandflyx 0]

charlie is passing on his stuff to sidling hackle farm. he's in Pa.

[SilverCreek 0]

On 9/7/2024 at 7:41 PM, Gene L said:

I got a couple of very high grade capes for Christmas.  The problem for me is there are MANY feathers in 16 and smaller, but you have to search for 12s and 14s; they're there, but are hard to find.  Also, there aren't many tailing feathers.  The ones on the sides of the cape are too narrow so I have to go to alternate means of tails.  So, my advice is to stick with Bronze grade unless you're really into tying small flies.  The feathers are uniform and narrow and long; you can usually get at least two flies off one feather.

I buy saddle hackle. Saddles have larger size hackle that are centered on one one size and then many one size smaller and one size larger. Plus one hackle will tie many flies because the hackles are longer.

I buy the cheapest grade which is the professional grade and that is not available in most fly shops. Hebert Miner hackle is generally has larger sized hackle than Whiting and I buy their professional grade. 

Here is a study done years ago on the cost of hackle.

[echelon3 0]

This is absolutely brilliant, Silver. Well done, and thank you.

[flytire 0]

time for a new study that's relevant for today's prices

[SilverCreek 0]

I don't think anything has changed. If anything, cheaper saddles have even better and the study is even more accurate. Pro grade hackle is the best buy.

Dry fly hackle has gotten so good that the cheaper grades are sufficient. After you have caught a few trout with a dry fly, the hackle is smashed up and any subtle advantage a premium hackle has is no longer present.

The most popular dry fly pattern in the USA is NOT a standard Catskill pattern with palmered upright hackle.

Parachute dry flies outsell Catskill dry flies by a wide margin. A size 14 parachute Adams is the most popular dry fly sold.

Why is this true? The reason is that a parachute fly has the hackle ABOVE the body and the fly body is NOT on top of the film as with a standard dry fly. A parachute fly has the fly body IN the film.

My best friend, Gary Borger, wrote an article on the stages of emergence and wrote the book, "Fishing The Film". I read his drafts and helped edit the book. In it he explains why the parachute is not a dry fly but a late stage emerger. 

Here is the book he gave me.

 

 

You can go to this link to see a post about parachute flies in his blog:

https://www.garyborger.com/2016/09/09/parachute-flies-stage-3-emerger/#jp-carousel-6393

Parachutes DO NOT need premium hackle. Cheaper grades of saddle hackle are sufficient because the hackles are longer and a single saddle hackle can tie more flies per hackle than a sincle neck hackle. Plus saddles are cheaper than necks.