Different sort of flyfishing...

[travbass2 0]

I tried talking about this with some non-flyfishers and didn't get quite the reaction I expected so I thought I'd get opinions from you guys. Sometimes I fish with flies that I turn the hooks up so that I don't actually hook the fish. I do it generally when fishing the Blue Ridge streams for native Brookies and I've done it with the Stripers here in the Bay. At least it goes for me, that catching a fish isn't always the goal. When I'm not keeping fish to eat like the brookies and stripers, I like to pick out fish, cast to them, entice the strike, feel the initial surge and short fight and then the fly pops out and I cast to another fish. That way the fish aren't harmed or killed by a deep hooking, no lasting negative effects on the fish, and I'm free to cast away to many fish in the course of the trip. I know that fish have the capacity to learn, some more than others. I read an interesting article on largemouth fishing and it talked about the bass' ability to learn quickly to aviod certain lures and flies. Using primarily poppers, the author discovered that after a short time, the bass refused to take poppers from the surface, in fact they refused to eat anything from the surface. Those bass would go to extremes not to get caught to the point of feeding almost exclusively on salamanders and insects near the bottom. Even when targeted with plastic lizards, the bass still continued to feed on salamanders despite being caught on the imitations. That was one food item they couldn't give up apparently.

With that in mind, it follows that other fish can do that. We all know of wiley old trout, smallmouth, muskies, and so on that have eluded capture from ordinary fishing methods. It takes something special to fool those old fish. In experimentation, I've been usingt these turned up hook flies to better understand what makes fish strike by using different flies and seeing reactions.

With the stripers, I used Gummie minnows and the fish savagely attacked them, and because of the soft feel to the fly, they hung onto the fly much longer than one tied with other materials. I had one on a hookless gummie for 3mins last summer. They don't like to give up what they think is their meal. It was neat because at night I could sit in my boat under the bridges and with light pouring into the surrounding water and it backlit the stripers waiting at the shadowline. Then I was free to target any fish, which was usually the biggest in the group. It was almost too easy and why I decided to go hookless. If I can catch close to a hunderd stripers in a night using hooked flies, imagine how many strikes a hookless fly can produce, and if it had hooks, the fish was as good as caught. With fighting time and unhooking cut back, the angler is free to make many more presentations to the fish. I don't always do this, I'm still a fisherman, but I figured you all would be more receptive to the idea of fishing for the strike while not harming the fish we care about so much. I'm not suggesting a ban on hooks by any means, just suggesting another way to persue fish. I know it's not for everyone, but fly anglers seem to be more in tune with their environment, more compassionate about the waters they frequent and the fish they persue compared to anglers using other methods.

Just wanted to toss this out there to see what yall think...

[fishyfranky 0]

Ummm... kinda like going out on a lot of dates and not... never mind.

[Redwings1 0]

The only time I have intentionally done that is when I came across a very small brookie stream in Michigan's UP. I wanted to see how the fish would react, but as they were so small I was not willing to gamble their life on my little experiment. I fished different dry flies, with the hook cut off at the bend, in this creek you could step over for a while just to watch the brookies come up inspect and take the imitation. I suppose you could argue that this expended energy with no return did them no favor, but I suspect it had less effect than a hook.

I have heard of people that fish this way all the time and count each strike as a caught fish...

If I am fishing a stream of mature fish then I do not worry about it that much. If you hook and properly play a fish on gear that is of the correct size then you should be able to release them unharmed. What bothers me is people that do things like fight large fish on 2 weight rods for an hour and think they have done the fish a favor when they release it...when all they really did is wear it to the edge of death. I am by no means against keeping the occasional fish in the right circumstances (see previous posts on this matter), but I do not agree with releasing a played out fish just to make yourself feel like a C&R only guy. Sorry if I went off on a tangent :dunno:

[Joe Hard 0]

There is some real good information in this post, about the fishes memory, the salamanders. How long a fish will hold onto certain flies, etc. You are one serious catch and release fisherman!!! Thanks for sharing all this info.

[Sean Juan 0]

I actually fish a hookless fly - cut the hook at the bend after tying - for pickerel a lot. I figured the best part was the strike the worst part was unhooking the slimey bitey fish, works like a charm.

 

I've also done it for LMB and stripers, nice to know that I'm not the only fisherman who thinks catching fish isn't the point of the game.

[travbass2 0]

Ah hah! I knew there would be some of you guys out there that wouldn't think I lost my mind for occasionally fishing for the strike. I know exactly how Redwings1 feels about those little brookies. Some of the streams on the Blue Ridge Parkway are little more than trickles, sometimes less than that in the drier summers. I've crept up to some summertime streams that were more like a series of puddles with the little trout crowded in the pools for lack of water. I don't fish for them at that point, in fact I like to think I help them make it till the rains replenish the streams by tossing in insects for the trout to eat. I've fished streams no wider than 2ft across and less than a foot of water with surprisingly nice sized Brookies in them. I've stunned more than a few friends showing them these streams, and those little Brookies is what got me interested in studying the strike but not hurting them. They have it hard enough at times. This activity also reveals a complex relationship I have with fishing. Naturally, my tactics and target species has evolved and changed over the course of my life and as I get older, more compassionate, and understand more about my passion, I have come to appreciate our water and fishery resources deeply. In my never-ending quest to learn all I can about the fish I chase, working to unlock the secrets of fish, I've come up with things about watersheds and fish behavoirs I would have never guessed had I not been so devoted to understanding them.

That's one of the main reasons why I take my observations and studies of fish under the surface with snorkel and scuba gear. I learned a great deal about smallmouth bass behavoir by swiming with them from March through Dec in some warmer years. I've been watching them for nearly 7 years now and have accumulated a stack of notes, diagrams, and pictures to help me become a more successful smallmouth angler. Now that I'm back on the coast, during the summer and fall, I swam with stripers in the Chesapeake and Red Drum in NC adding to what I already knew about them from fishing.

Despite this age of knowledge and technology, we still have alot to learn about our fish species and the waters they swim in. I do what I can to contirbute to our base of knowledge while preserving deeper, harder to figure out aspects about the fish I chase, saving them for more private conversations. While I'm still formulating behavoirs of Stripers, I at least discovered they like the Gummie minnow's lifelike feel and I can't help but wonder how a scent impregnated Gummie would do. Something like a Berkley Power fly or something like that. I imagine it would work like gangbusters if the success of thier line of plastics could be used as a baseline. Something to think about...

[cornmuse 0]

travbass;

 

You aren't alone in this. In fact, Jack Ellis goes on for some length about precisely this practice in the book "Bassin' with a Fly Rod".

 

I've spent more than a few hours doing this exact same thing with bluegills. I know of a few ponds (Redwings, you'll see them this spring - it will mess you up when I get you to the one we have to climb into ) where the 'gills just hang about a foot deep over 6 feet or more of water. They cruise slowly picking off chironomids. These are buster gills and are SPOOKY. I can take one or two, then the rest are put down. Last year I spent half a day trying different flies that were hookless in order to understand which strike trigger worked best. I could get the same fish to hit five or six different times - as long as I just kept pressure on them they'd release the fly, sulk for a minute, and then go right back to cruising. Of course I had to keep pretty still myself in order to do this!

 

I also do this with gar from time to time. I toss a fly at them, "knowing" I can't hook them. I don't even try. I just wait for that lightning quick take, then retrieve the trashed streamer and smile. Of course one local fellow has now convinced me that these guys CAN be hooked, so I'll have to try and actually land one. Never did that on a fly rod before (because I never managed to get the hook actually set in that rock hard beak of theirs).

 

It's true, while catching a fish might be the goal of fishing it certainly isn't the point of fishing!

 

Joe C.

[flyfishingwright 0]

Interesting

[Redwings1 0]

The steeper the climb, or descent, the greater the reward...

[longears 0]

Very interesting. just one question (maybe 2) though. You said you are fishing with an "upturned hook" because you don't want to catch the fish. This is the part that I don't get... I've caught countless Salmon with an up turned hook. Also, how would one account for all of the fish that Marabou jigs have caught over the years and even Keel hhoks. Everything that I've read said that if you want to fish deep and in the weeds ;use an upturned hook or tie on a weed guard. Ithink that the idea of cutting the hook at the bend would be the best bet if you just wanted to practice fishing. just a thought. I see your point, just don't understand the upturned hook theory....

[travbass2 0]

I'll elaborate about my description of an upturned hook. What I meant by that was I take the point of the hook and bend it up into the soft material of the Gummie minnow so it in effect forms a complete circle, and with the point buried in the material, the fish aren't hooked. Maybe I should have said it like that, but that's what I'm talking about. Sorry about the confusion.

Cornmuse, I know a great way to catch Gar on a flyrod. Use a hookless fly. Tie materials on a regular streamer hook, size doesn't really matter as you cut the hook at the start of the bend. The trick is to use yarn or ploy rope that is unraveled. I use both. Tie in the yarn or rope securely to the shank, using plenty of Zap a Gap to keep it there, make the fly so the yarn or rope extends to make about a 6" fly and the final step is to secure the end of the material one of two ways. With the rope, you can burn the end of the material and it will melt. If using yarn, you might be able to burn it to secure the ends if the right material or tie it off with kevlar thread and a liberal dose of Zap a Gap. When the Gar hits the fly, the yarn or rope will get tangled in it's teeth and by securing the end of the material, it will prevent the fly from pulling out like it was pulled through a comb. The Gar roll and twist, getting further tangled and you can land far more fish like that than using hooks. The catch is you need to make plenty of flies because sometimes the only way to safely release the fish is to cut the fly out, but you don't always have to. Being such a simple tie with minimal materials, making a couple dozen in an evening isn't a big project. I tend to use older hooks that would otherwise be tossed out for these flies. Give it a shot this spring, you should be quite pleased. I've had best luck with white/red combos, all red, and chart/red, all with some flash material in it. I think they tend to target the flies with red in it as it mimics a wounded shad and we all know any fish would rather eat a more vunerable meal than chase down meals in top shape.