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Fly Tying
Joe Hard

Begginers Vice, tools, cost

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The recent post about buying a tying kit got me thinking what does a beginner really need that would be most useful and beneficial to them. Vice? Tools? Cost?

I know that I have a lot of tools, but my main tools I use are a bodkin, 2 pairs of scissors (work horse for wire etc. and fine work), matarelli whipfinnisher, hair stacker, and a bobbin. Roughly around $50.00 Canadian. I have a Danvice that was around $70.00 Canadian. This is just a rough guess on the cost but pretty close. So that's about $120.00 Canadian. I was wondering what everyone thinks is really necessary and the cost of a start up.

 

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That sounds pretty close to me, the vise is subjective though. Danvise is fine but if they do not go the route of a rotary they can get a pretty decent stationary or 360 for under fifty dollars.

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Joe:

I've been putting together a Fly Tying 101 class for my chruch's men's group. I approached it with the idea that the people who will be in the class have never seen a vice, have a limited income, and don't want to spend a bunch of money on a hobby they may not like.

 

My opinion on tools is as follows:

Simple AA Vice: $10-$20

Bobbin: $2

Bodkin: $2

Matarelli Style Whip Finisher: $5

Scissors: $5

Hair Stacker: $3

Hackle Pliers: $3

 

Those prices are estimates of what I saw at our local Sportsman's Warehouse a few days ago. So, a total of about $20-$40 to get the tools needed.

With a beginner, none of this stuff needs to be "top quality." The point is to just get them started.

But, all the tools in the world aren't any good without the materials to tie with. How does a beginner select what materials he/she needs to get started. Making a list of basic patterns to tie maybe?

That's why I believe kits are the way to go with beginning fly tiers. They at least give you a small material collection to build on.

Now, once they get started, they can upgrade tools and materials as their skills and fiancial resources improve.

Just my 2 cents.

Ben

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This is exactly the input I was looking for. Maybe later we can discuss what materials a beginner should get as well. I know it all depends on what type of flies each person wants to tie but we should be able to come up with basic things like threads, dubbings, hackles, cements/glues and furs etc. and come up with a dollar figure so that a beginner can have something to compare a kit cost and whats in it to individual purchases. I am just trying to help out newcomers, by giving them a thread to refer to, made by the members here.

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Good info so far. I'll add my thoughts about a begginers initial investment options.

 

IMO theres three different levels of cost that a begginer can choose from when getting started in fly tying. And those are Cheapest way possible, decent quality, and long term investment.

 

 

 

Cheapest way possible- This is basicly what Ben stated. For as low of a investment as $30-$40 you can get a simple non-rotary C-clamp vise with the bare bones tools needed such as scissors, standard hackle pliers, whip finisher, Non ceramic bobin, bodkin, and a hair stacker. To make it easier on the new tyer you can even get these tools as a complete starter set from places such as Cabelas or even Ebay such as this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/FLY-TYING-TOOL-KITS-KI...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

These kits will get a newbie tyers started in tying, but the quality is usually sub-par and most tyers will find a need to upgrade to some better quality tools within a very short amount of time.

 

 

Decent Quality- Decent quality is basicly the same type of tools, just upgraded to a little bit better quality at the price of a bit higher investment. Usually the investment here will be around the $100-$125 price range. Something like this.

 

Danvise or equal quality Rotary vise $75-$85

Better quailty scissors like Dr Slick $12-$15

Ceramic bobbin $6-$12

Better quality hair stacker $10-12

 

These tools will usually keep the tyer happy for a decent amount of time untill they feel the need to upgrade, although some tyers have been tying great flies for years with tools such as these.

 

 

Long Term Investment- This is mainly for someone that knows for a fact they will enjoy tying and want to buy tools once and not have to worry about them. The price range on these can run anywhere from $200-$500

 

What you get with this range are tools such as a Well established name brand vise like a Renzetti, Peak,HMH or equal quality true rotary vise that will last a life time. Mulitple ceramic bobins to hold a number of thread colors pre spooled, top quailty scissors such as Anvil or like brands along with a separate pair so you have a pair for corse hair trimming, and then a pair for small detail work like cutting hackle. Possibly a pedestal base along with the C clamp to give you choices, as well as other tools that are not necessarily needed but just make life easier at the bench such as hackle guages, hackle gaurds,rotary hackle pliers, bobin threaders and such.

 

 

Usually I will advise against the first option in most cases simply because you will out grow the cheap set of tools in a big hurry, but the cheaper set does have its place if you have never tied a fly and arent sure if you will enjoy it or not.

 

Thats just the way I view it, but hope thats of some help.

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My only comment would be regarding the whip finisher. If you want to cut cost somewhere, that would be it in my opinion. I started without, using my fingers, but now have both Thompson and Matarelli. I still go back to my fingers unless it is really close quarters. For that reason, I would recomend the Thompson style if any.

 

My philosophy is - your hands are the first and most important tools to learn to use. Without them, no other tools are any good. Whipfinishers illustrate this particularly well.

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I can't say I've had expeerience with a lot of low quality tools (maybe that's all I have, they were given to me, except...) but I start with an old herters vise that gave zero access to the back of the hook and didn't hold very well. It almost put me off tying because it was too frustrating. Along the way, I picked up a cheap travel kit for $20. Vice was ok, but the bobbin kept breaking my thread. Now have a Renzetti Traveler which makes tying sooo much more enjoyable.

From now on, no el cheap stuff. Inexpensive as I can without buying crap. It's frustrating enough trying to keep your material on top of the hook with the pinch method as a beginner but to deal with sub par tools isn't where to start.

Hmmm... I forgot what the topic was. Damn bobbin- I did get pretty good at half hitches, had to tie one everytime around the hook in case the thread broke.

 

Oh yeah, Unless there is a workable "Cheapest Way Possible" set out there that won't frustrate a new tyer, I say start at the Decent quality tools and buy them from a reputable seller, not ebay kits unless you know someone who has had experience with it.

 

And I agree, cut cost at the whip finisher. That thing intimidated me the first 6 months of tying, until I tried it.

my 2 cents.

tom

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Hey-Just thought I would add how I started just a few months ago. I had a very lucky situation, that was most likely more expensive than your average beginner, but well worth the waiting I did. This falls along the Longterm Investment Option costing well over $400, but worth every penny

Christmas was my way to getting things, but I hear that cash works well too. I was pretty sure that I would like fly tying so I Decided to get good quality tools that I knew I could keep forever.

IPB Image

<This included a HMH Standard vise with pedistel base, a DR Slick Tool set with extra scissors, rotary hackle pliers, and extra bobbin.

IPB Image

<As far as materials go, my Dad went crazy and found an ebay dealer who put together a HUGE set of materials, that saved a bunch of money from the local Orvis, and at a recent fly fishing show I picked up a nice hardwood tying station for half price.>

IPB Image

The big thing for me was to keep the quality up, and wait to get these items; I waited 4 months for everything for Christmas, and just 2 weeks ago got the tying station. One thing to add, for youth starting out like me, birthdays or Christmas not only allow for tools and materials to be purchased, but also for gift cards to the local shop for later on in the year for that special patturn.

Some more pictures of my corner-

Books and videos>

IPB Image

The location>

IPB Image

THE END RESULT>

IPB Image

Now I realize that I am extreeeeeeemly lucky for the things I have and not every one can afford to spend so much at once, but if you have tried fly tying once and like it, go ahead and get good stuff.

Hope this helps,

God Bless

-Jeff

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what ever you figure to get started ..... add about 200 to that cause you will be addicted to tying lol. next you'll be buying feather dusters, and scavenging the isles of home depot and hobby lobby to find a score of material lol :headbang:

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I'm new to fly tying, and just started bying material. I found this guy on ebay who seems to be selling a nice material kit for cheap. He as great feedback, and his kit is cheap, with free international shipping. I ordered one myself, and will tell how I feel about it when I receive it.

 

http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQsassZpercyhamQQhtZ-1

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I checked your link Mctwist. Seems like a good deal there is a good assortment there and the price seems good.

 

As far as the rest of the lthread, Id lone out some tools b4 Id let a freind go to cheap on tools. I started with a cheep kit and it almost scared me of with the junkn tools and materials that were more fragile than they should of been. I wouldnt say go out and remortgage the house but get the best advise and best poss. tools and materials you can afford. If you dont enjoy it ebay it, but you'll stand a better chance of enjoying yourself with better gear

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I am a beginner too. I started tying about six months ago and am self taught. I really

think buying the best you can reasonably afford is good advise. There are no fly shops in my area so I buy everything on line. I tried to get away with a pair of $7 scissors and knew the minute I picked them up it

was a mistake. Now they are just for wire and deer hair.

 

I can see skipping the whip finisher. However if you don't have a teacher it is very hard to learn from

pictures. I really struggled trying to learn it until I found this video tutorial

 

hand whip finish

 

As for a vise there are many online reviews to help you get the most bang for your buck.

 

Tom

 

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My advice as a person who has been tying about a year and a half. My flies improved much more by getting better quality materials than better quality tools. I believe I'm quoting John Gierach when I say the best you can tie with mediocre materials is mediocre flies (or something to that effect). Its true. If I were to give advice to a beginner I'd say figure out the amount you want to spend, the flies you want to start with, buy the materials for that set of flies and your leftover budget is your tool budget. Most tiers start the other way. Just my .02.

 

Steve

 

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