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Don Bastian

Who Invented the Dubbing Loop?

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Here's a thought to continue the same thread. Einstein proposed that all ideas rest in an area where any one may call upon. One need only be inquisitive to visit this location and ideas are plentiful. In this way was explained how a man in France and a man in America conceived the method of transmitting voice over a wire. Each was independent and each came to the same end result.

 

Interesting thought. But equally interesting is the evolution of fly tying as a result of the endeavors of these great gentlement and women.

 

How long is the list?

 

Polly Rosborough to Nymphs

William Blades to mayflies and extended bodies

Bates on streamers

Krey on salt

Bergman on trout

Mary Orvis on flies

Helen Shaw on tying

who else?

 

later

Fred

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Don,

 

I was doing a little more digging into the dubbing loop question and came across some information that seems to fit the time frame you are talking about. Dave Hughes book called "Wet Flies" (page 28 & 29) makes mention of silk spun dubbing bodies as part of his discussion of James Leisenring & Pete Hidy. They published a book in 1941 ("The Art of Tying the Wet Fly"). These were spun from two silk threads with dubbing twisted in between, on a dubbing block. It's not a big stretch to go from separately spun dubbed bodies to a dubbing loop.

 

Polly Rosborough's dubbing technique (which he called a "noodle") was created some time between 1932 (when he bought a bunch of seal fur to work with) and 1946. He indicates that "The first material I used was seal fur. I bought one-eighth ounce each of blue dun and natural cream, and my first look at it convinced me I would never be able to tie it on a hook. The seal fur was so short - only a quarter of an inch long - ans so slick one could hardly hold onto it. But I am a subborn Scot and I had eighty cents invested in that quarter-ounce of fur, a conciderable sum in 1932. I would find a way."

 

Sorry to muddy the waters, but it looks like they may have each come up with the same solution about the same time. (Great minds think alike?)

 

 

James Leisenring never discusses the dubbing loop in regards to using it on the hook. He only shows using it to roll bodies on his pants leg. And he also says this pre-making of bodies is the only superior method so even if he knew of using a dubbing loop on the hook he never suggested using it in print that I can find.

 

Polly Rosborough's quote does not describe the use of a dubbing loop. In fact that section discusses using glue to roll the dubbing in to make a self sustainging "noodle" that is tied on by one end and wrapped independently of the thread to make the body. His showing of using a dubbing loop comes in the section on felting which he discovered in 1944-45 but which had been known to hatters for centuries. And here he does not claim to have discovered the method but instead discusses its use as if it was well known. Polly was generally very good about mentioning what he felt were his inventions and by not doing so here argues against him being an originator of the method.

 

Just my 2 cents and worth every penny

 

Regards,

 

:yahoo:

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sturgeon_catcher said it very eloquently and I would have to agree: it seems to me that it would be very hard to attribute a dubbing loop to any one person. It seems kind of like asking who invented the broom or the shovel. Eminently useful tools but it is kind of intuitive what you need when you see the problem. I would say thay people with scraps of old wools and fur around would naturally seek a way to make into flies and why not wind it between two pieces of thread?

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Ray:

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to reasearch this question. Like I said, and I'm glad you agree, it is interesting. I was fascinated by Bergman's writing about his variation, and now thanks to your detail-digging it seems plausible that it could have been developed by a few guys around the same time period. Probably difficult to determine exactly who did invent it, and I wasn't necessarily lookig for that. I just though I'd throw the question out.

 

Thanks again to all who entered their 2 cents worth. Appreciate it!

 

Don

 

PS - halcyon - missed pg. 2 when I made my last post. Appreciate your research time as well!

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Good Day,

 

Like so many other things in and or relating to our hobby, I am not certain this can be answered with any true degree of accuracy. There are so many unknowns. On the other hand, we have an honest tendancy to "borrow" or better, learn from each other and then borrow or integrate what we learn from others into our own tying. Thirdly, there is the concept of, and this may seem redundant, "synchonous coincidental intellectual creative design". Or, for you lay people, (yeah you other guys from West Michigan... ha ha) coming up with the same idea in different places at the same time. It happens in physics, astronomical theory, computer design, and yes, fly tying. But really who is to say? The dubbing loop could have been created hundreds of years ago in Japan, thousands of years ago in Rome, or during the late 1800's in Scotland. It could even have been in the 20's by some tyer with a coat hanger and a pair of pliers. I think that is part of the beauty and wonder of our history and the history we have yet to write in the hobby/sport. Particulary today, with the greatest influential occurance or entity to have ever have effected our hobby, the internet.

 

Steelie

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An additional thought - Isn't it cool how this sport of fly fishing and fly tying garnered the support and focus of such people as the Polly " who wouldn't lay claim to it if it wasn't his" what special people these persons are. Not were. Polly was spoken of in virtually the present tense.

 

We must take every opportunity to point out these historically significant aspects of this fly thing.

 

Keep the memories strong and of course the lines tight.

Nice thread guys - someone think of another.

later

Fred

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