Who Invented the Dubbing Loop?

[Don Bastian 0]

I'd like to put this question out there for all forum readers to rely on their knowledge and research materials to share what they know. I recently came across some information on this subject, and was surprised. That got me thinking if it is actually known and / or recognized, so the question here is:

 

"Who invented the dubbing loop, and when was this technique invented?"

 

I have my source and will wait & see how it goes here before I add my information on the possible originator of this technique.

 

Thanks in advance to all participants.

 

Don

[AKSkim 0]

Mr. Bastian:

 

That is a very easy question. Al Gore invented it, early 1980's I seem to recall.

 

Hope you have plans for a second DVD. I thoroughly enjoyed and learned from your first one.

 

AKS

[madkasel 0]

Benjamin Franklin!

 

He invented everything that Edison didn't.

[robow7 0]

I thought it was J. Cheever Loophole, the Legal Eagle

 

Thanks Groucho

[letumgo 0]

I'm going to guess it was E.H. "Polly" Rosborough, for his fuzzy nymphs...

[day5 0]

Mr. Bastian:

 

That is a very easy question. Al Gore invented it, early 1980's I seem to recall.

 

Hope you have plans for a second DVD. I thoroughly enjoyed and learned from your first one.

 

AKS

 

it is true!!! I saw it on his early internet versions!!!!

 

[Sturgeon_Catcher 0]

William Blades speaks of a dubbing loop method in his book dtd 1951 Fishing Flies and fly tying. Do not have access to all of my books at pr3esent time but this is the first reference in my reading of a dubbing loop.

Later

Fred

[Don Bastian 0]

letumgo & sturgeon_catcher:

 

Thanks for your "serious" replies. Bill Blades is a good guess and right in there with my "guess." Polly Rosborough, could also be, when?

 

The rest of you, thanks for the laughs.

 

I'm very busy & will be so, I'm going to wait a while yet. If no one else checks in, I'll try to get back here next week, thanks!

 

Don

[halcyon 0]

William Blades speaks of a dubbing loop method in his book dtd 1951 Fishing Flies and fly tying. Do not have access to all of my books at pr3esent time but this is the first reference in my reading of a dubbing loop.

Later

Fred

 

I have found a reference in Fly Tyer magazine, Vol. 6, Issue 3, page 48 where the author in discussing various dubbing methods details the dubbing loop method and says "...the dubbing loop method was invented in Europe after WWI". Nothing further. If you would like a copy of the original article I can send you a pdf file.

 

Regards,

[Guest]

I did a little editing of "humourous responses" in this post-

Good thing Don has a sense of humor.

[Joe Hard 0]

I would think the dubbing loop has been arround for a real long time. Pigs fur, then seal which are hard to dub. Someone must of figured it out way back when, when the earth was green.

[halcyon 0]

I would think the dubbing loop has been arround for a real long time. Pigs fur, then seal which are hard to dub. Someone must of figured it out way back when, when the earth was green.

 

I originally thought the same but if you think about it, a dubbing loop would be a difficult procedure to make and use until you use a vise instead of one hand to hold the hook.

 

Regards,

 

[Sturgeon_Catcher 0]

I do have Polly's book with me and have reread the section describing his method of dubbing loop.

 

As he explains it - completely out of nowhere - he discovers this method. No reference to other sources what so ever. He does however progress with a reference to applying glue to a single strand of heavier thread and twisting the dubbing pencil size material around the thread after application of lots of glue to accomplish a proper noodle.

 

I should like to suggest his dubbing loop was greatly dependent upon the proper congealing of materials to be dubbed. I am anxious to apply his blending method in preparing some badger and fox blend for nymphs.

later

Fred

[Don Bastian 0]

Thanks guys, for your input. Like I said in my previous post, I've been very busy. The fishing has been good but I have also been doing lots of projects around the house, mostly small ones that have a habit of stacking up.

 

Anyway, as I mentioned, I recently came across something regarding the dubbing loop, or variation thereof, that I thought quite interesting. Not that this proves who in fact created this technique, but I will tell you what I found out.

 

Ray Bergman, author of Trout, (1938) and the second edition, revised and enlarged in 1952, writes in the fly tying chapter of the second edition, page 410:

 

"Some furs adhere to the thread easily but others do not. With some, in fact, it help to use rather sticky thread, or use two threads. To do this last first lay a piece of waxed thread on your knee. Then fluff out the fur to be used and lay it on top of this thread. Then take another piece of thread and lay on top of the fur, and twist the two together. This is a good stunt for making fluffy and bulky fur bodies, but it can also be used for making sleek, tapered ones. To my knowledge this is simply one of my own little ideas, which I stumbled on when trying to make the Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear pattern."

 

This was written in the 1952 edition, but not in the 1938 first edition. So sometime in between the two dates, Ray Bergman, according to his words, created this particular method, which is actually what we know as a dubbing loop. Bergman at this time was angling editor of Outdoor Life magazine, during a time when there were no fly fishing publications on the market. Any fly tying articles published were in various periodicals of the day, Outdoor Life being one of them. And this method, like many fly tying techniques, could have been developed by more than one person around the same time without the parties involved knowing about someone else having a similar idea.

 

One final thought - Ray Bergman was the type of man who was rather modest and he probably wouldn't have thought of this technique as a big deal.

 

Just thought it interesting...

 

Tight lines to all!

 

Don

 

[letumgo 0]

Don,

 

I was doing a little more digging into the dubbing loop question and came across some information that seems to fit the time frame you are talking about. Dave Hughes book called "Wet Flies" (page 28 & 29) makes mention of silk spun dubbing bodies as part of his discussion of James Leisenring & Pete Hidy. They published a book in 1941 ("The Art of Tying the Wet Fly"). These were spun from two silk threads with dubbing twisted in between, on a dubbing block. It's not a big stretch to go from separately spun dubbed bodies to a dubbing loop.

 

Polly Rosborough's dubbing technique (which he called a "noodle") was created some time between 1932 (when he bought a bunch of seal fur to work with) and 1946. He indicates that "The first material I used was seal fur. I bought one-eighth ounce each of blue dun and natural cream, and my first look at it convinced me I would never be able to tie it on a hook. The seal fur was so short - only a quarter of an inch long - ans so slick one could hardly hold onto it. But I am a subborn Scot and I had eighty cents invested in that quarter-ounce of fur, a conciderable sum in 1932. I would find a way."

 

Sorry to muddy the waters, but it looks like they may have each come up with the same solution about the same time. (Great minds think alike?)

 

Interesting question, though.

 

Ray