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Fly Tying
Alex C.

Selling Flies

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Alex, I'm an innovative tyer for Rainy's. I checked them out pretty hard before I signed up my flies. First I checked into quality, then how their employees are treated. Can't say enough how good of a company they are. I sure as heck was shocked on the quality of tie of the fly I sent in.

 

Onto flies being tied overseas. Just about every shop out there probably has a selection of flies coming from overseas. Everywhere from Africa to Asia. I don't think there truly is a big fly company out there that isn't outsourcing their flies somewhere else.

 

If you're tying custom flies for clients (like I do myself) then these companies will have zero to take from you. They're into selling bulk flies, not a few here/few there. I have enough clients on my plate that I'm fine with them picking up some of my flies and tying for shops (since I don't cater to shops anyways). Plus, I make alot more tying less for selective clients, not shops. I think the big problem was you used Rainy's as a company without doing your homework. If you'd said something like "fly companies that have their flies tied overseas are the reason we smaller fly tyers aren't going to make as much". That would've been better to say.

 

Sean, it's almost hard to truly find a product totally made in the US. Even rods. Alot of the components that are put into most rods are made overseas (reel seats, eyes, etc). You may find some, but I bet most will be made in the orient. Have a few rods labeled "Made in the USA", but have Fuji eyes and reelseats on them. I try to buy "Made in the USA" as well. Only problem, it's truly hard to find much of ANYTHING souly made in the USA. THat's even including vehicles (parts coming out of Canada, Asia, etc). I know my older (and it's an early 80's) full sized Blazer has parts (which are factory installed parts) that say "Made in Canada". Though the sticker on the inside door that states it was assembled in the USA (think it was the detroit plant, sticker has long since fallen off).

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I'd like to apologize. I didn't read the whole post. I was given a link to this, and thought I had read the whole thing. So see I missed alot on this. LOL.

 

Onto the buying a steak from a vegetarian, etc. I live in the mecca of rod building (Washington). Gloomis, Sage, Rainshadow, Lamiglas, etc are produced. I knew quite a few rod builders over the years. Guess what? I knew quite a few who DID NOT FISH!!!!!! Knew one woman who was a friend of my exwife who was a rod wrapper for Sage for several years. Never fished a day in her life. Few others in same boat. They had the skills to wrap/build a rod, but never for their own fishing (they were hired for a job only). I wouldn't doubt there are machinists in reel making companies (and vise as well) who either don't tie/fish or very rarely. They are hired for their specialty (machining).

 

I agree, this is a global economy now. If you were to simply say "I'm only buying American", you'd better being doing ALOT of research on the companies you buy from. Chances are the gas company, or burger joint, etc may be owned by an overseas company. Good example. I pickup from UPS stores (I'm a UPS driver by trade, but we do not own UPS stores, they just have the rights to our names right now, they are actually Mail Boxes ETC). Know of two in the center I drive in that are owned by a person in China. So the money you're spending in those locations, though it be manned by US citizens, are being sent over to China. (Though the UPS store on my route is actually owned Locally). The company you buy locally from could be owned somewhere else (or by someone who just came to the US, and sending their monies back to their native homeland). Best to just buy from who you get the best service from. In the end, that's what you want isn't it? Plus, not all things coming from overseas is junk. It's a case by case thing. After seeing the flies from Rainy's (and I'm not saying this because I'm a tyer for them), I would buy their flies from a shop. I was so impressed with the quality of the flies, I was fine with them tying the flies I'm known for. Even did the "fish" test with the samples of my flies they sent me. Held up as well as mine.

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I was given a link to this,

 

:hyst: Thats too funny. I couldn't believe it this morning when I got online and there were like 50 replies already.

 

I'll say it one last time, I started this to help people thinking about selling flies.

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So sad isn't it, still it has kept a few of us entertained... sort of like a fight in the playground...

 

 

We're just lucky DFix hasn't come and slapped us around yet :o

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I guess that one of the biggest bones of contention that I have with foreign-tied copies of trout flies is the public not being aware of what they are buying.

For instance, one fly company from Montana uses Montana in their name and I have seen many customers (when I worked in the retail tackle industry) who assume that these are Montana-tied flies. They, of course, are not.

To their credit, this company's website brags, like the Rainey website, about what ever non-American workers that they are using at the time and every box of flies says "made in wherever" on it.

So it doesn't appear that the company is at fault here...at least not legally. Also, their flies and materials are excellent compared to some companies.

 

The problem is, IMHO, that no one ever sees this information except the retail clerk. The fly bins are not labeled. If this is legal...ok. If it's not, then it is a violation that is being practiced everywhere.

Frankly, I don't know. If it is legal, it's sure a convienient deception IMHO.

 

American companies that take American dollars in profit but refuse to employ American workers only survive if Americans don't care. My WalMart tv says "made in Japan" on the back...I've got a hunch that only putting that on the shipping crate for the WalMart employee to see would not be enough.

 

It's true, I don't want a vegetarian making my barbeque sandwich but my television is oriental (because I can't buy any that aren't) so, I guess it's a relative thing.

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I can think of several shops that are listed on the Rainy's website that advertise their flies as locally tied. I won't give names cause I've already avoided one lawsuit this week :lol: , but MTtyer makes a good point.

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Whatever the product, I get tired of seeing the made in label on so many of the products I buy revealing that it's been made or assembled in another country.

 

I'm all for capitalism, and I don't think it's at the heart of this. I think that we have too large a governemt, there fore too many taxes, in addition to Union heads who've lost sight ofthe workers they are supposed to be serving and just "sock it to" the government whenever possible to get what the loudest people want, even if it causes businesses to go elsewhere for employees.

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Just curious if the shop you are going to says "All flies tied in the US/by our employees". If it doesn't say all, they probably do have SOME of their flies tied "in house" or my local tyers. I actually had a local spey shop try to contract me out to tie up my steelhead muddlers that couldn't be bought through any fly distributor (yes, they do sell them, but not like the ones I tie). I don't like tying production (as in 1,000's at a time), and especially muddlers. Small orders are fine, but a couple hundred of each size would kill me. LOL.

 

Not sure what the initial post had said, but there have been people who have misrepresented themselves on the net, or have made some pretty slanderous remarks towards companies. Can see where an employee/owner may get a bit peeved.

 

Onto names, that's all it is, A NAME. Of course I can see where there would be the assumption of Montana fly company having all their flies made in Montana. But guess what? There is a Seattle Massage School (now known as Ashmead College). Had several campuses all over the NW. Only one in Seattle. Same goes for Seattle Mortgage. Renton Western Wear has a store in Tacoma (not known as Tacoma Western Wear LOL). At one time the company may have had all it's dealings in Montana, but have grown since them. Alot of companies are that way. Only problem is they have a city specific (or in this case State specific) name.

 

Every company out there has it's goods and bads. All of them are out to make a buck, and bet most (if not all) have done some sort of outsourcing to keep making a buck (if it's big at all that is). Know a few well known local companies (including a big tying company in the NW) who employee immigrant workers to tie up/produce their goods. Have the "made in the USA" stamp on them, yet are being built by foreign labor. It's all relative in the long run. Just depends on how wide you want to open your eyes.

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I actually had a local spey shop try to contract me out to tie up my steelhead muddlers that couldn't be bought through any fly distributor

 

Got a pic/recipe? I'm always a sucker for muddler style flies

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See thats what I like about our local flyshop, Craig, the owner ties alot of the flies sold there, and the rest come from local tyers, such as myself and others, and they are all very nicely tied and focused on what is productiave around here on our local streams and rivers, he orders no flies other than from us locals, and has a huge selection of flies and at a great price, the flyshop I speak of is Serenity Now Outfitters :headbang:

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I got a Sage ball hat free from my closest fly shop one day for dropping a bundle. You know what it says on the inside, made in Vietnam.

 

I got a Harley Davidson ball hat and you know what it says on the inside of that made in China.

 

I just picked up the book Clouser's Flies off my shelf, guess where it was printed, China

 

I bet if you really look into a lot of what you think was made in your country you will be surprised where things actually come from. It has been that way for a real long time.

 

Big companies are out to make money. They got us every way we turn. Consumers should also try to get "the best bang for there buck".

 

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I agree. Sounds like the cap manufacturer and the book printer, etc. are all being on the up and up about where the stuff you are buying is made. That all sounds perfectly legal to me. (not that I would know if it weren't)

Is your local fly shop being on the up and up and letting you know where the flies that they are selling are being tied, or would you have to ask?

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Ya know, where I'm from when a man apologizes you accept the apology, shake his hand and move on. The comments by a couple of people after Night Fish apologized show me who the better man is.

 

Where's the mod who said "threats" don't belong here? I'd say that threats of violence are worse than legal action.

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