Poly Yarn vs. Antron

[VERN-O 0]

Are these two materials pretty much the same????

 

also what's the best way to use either of them as a dubbing? (waxed thread, dubbing loop, or just twist it on the thread)

[Ephemerella 0]

Not the same. That being said, in some applications they are interchangeable.

 

Antron has a tri-lobal cross section, and is essentially a nylon. This design permits lots of internal reflections. It comes in various fiber diameters and softnesses. Gary LaFontaine wrote at length on this in his work Caddisflies, which is an excellent reference. As such it is useful to emulate the surrounding bubble effects on caddis pupae, and to emulate the trailing shuck of mayflies, which on the natural fly is transparent protein, and has a certain reflective property. In dubbing it also results in the appearance of tiny bubbles attached to the nymph, which sometimes, say just before a "hatch" is of interest to fish.

 

Poly yarn is polyester and has round or other cross-sections. Typically softer, and does not have the reflections. Useful, some would say better, for spinner wings and parachute posts among other things. On the other hand plenty of folks use Antron for both. In extremely fine diameters it can be used for dry fly dubbing- I suspect many synthetic dry fly dubbings are this stuff--the mfrs. guard their "secret recipes".

 

Some put Aunt Lydia's sparkle yarn in the same class as Antron and use them interchangeably, others would say no. Then there are other related fibers like Z-lon (poly ster??) and so forth.

 

As far as dubbing, finely chopped antron can be used as dubbing, and then everyone has their favorite approach to apply it. Ployester is bettr as "fluff" and then twisted on in the usual manner. All the methods you describe work.

 

So go experiment...

-E

[Guest]

No they aren't the same, Poly floats and is dull in sheen while the antron doesn't float and has lots of shimmer and highlights. I usually cut pieces of both long enough to make the body of the fly I'm tying usually between 3-4 inches and then seperate the fibers from both and twist them together around the thread to form a tight rope, I'll also include a piece or two of Crystal flash of varying colors depending on what I'm tying. I have never used the poly as dubbing but it seems that it would be very easy to do just by cutting it into short pieces and shredding them apart, add some antron treated the same way. For a spikier dubbing I'd add some hairs rabbit or squirrel leaps to mind. Experiment, have fun. Eric

[KevCompton 0]

Hey Verno,

 

Long time since we've crossed paths. How's it going?

 

Poly Yarn and Antron are not the same materials. Are you referring to Antron Yarn?

 

Poly Yarn and Antron are both synthetic materials.

 

Antron is a trilobal filament (as Ephemerella points out). It has a high reflectivity under water. Antron mats in water.

 

Poly Yarn is polypropylene. It is non-absorbent and somewhat buoyant. It is suitable for large dry flies such as adult stoneflies or grasshoppers -- where the volume of Poly contributes to the pattern's flotation; or spinner wings and parachute posts (again, Ephemerella mentions this).

 

For dubbing, the fine filaments of Antron have been blended with natural materials, such as rabbit and mink. Hareline's "Hare-tron" is 20% Antron and 80% rabbit fur. The filaments are also blended to produce an all sythetic dubbing such as "Tri-Lobal Dubbing" or or Fly-Rite's "Crystal Clear Antron Dubbing," which is only available in it's original clear color. Antron Yarn (Sparkle Yarn or Dazzle-Aire) is also chopped and mixed with natural fur to produce the dubbing prescribed by LaFontaine's Emergent Sparkle Pupa -- the dubbing blend that is "touch dubbed" to the thread which becomes the pupa's body. There are countless all-synthetic dubbings which are likely all Antron -- "Caddis Emerger Dubbing," etc.

 

Fly-Rite's Poly Dubbing is entirely polypropylene -- non-absorbent and with a density less than water -- makes it a great dubbing material for dry fly bodies. I've never tried chopping up Poly Yarn and blending it to use as a dubbing material. Maybe it's worthing investigating.

 

Antron and Z-Lon are similar. But Z-Lon is not a polyester. However, Antron mats, whereas Z-Lon does not, in water. Z-Lon is perhaps a better shuck material and is called for in Craig Matthew's Sparkle Dun, a traditional Comparadun with a Z-Lon shuck.

 

It would be interesting if someone could better explain the differences between Antron & Z-Lon.

 

KDC

 

 

 

 

[Hot Tuna 0]

....the difference between zlon and antron might be a trade secret;I'm pretty sure Craig Matthews and John Betts might have the market cornered on zlon...I'd love to hear from Craig on this or anything else for that matter...

Fish on,

Hot Tuna

[KevCompton 0]

Hot Tuna (from Jorma & J. Cassidy??) and others,

 

Betts & BRF have cornered the market. Here are Craig & Company's explanation:

 

Zelon

 

"In 1985, Blue Ribbon Flies and John Betts purchased the world’s supply of raw Zelon from DuPont. Since that time, it has proven to be one of the most versatile and widespread fly tying materials of all time. We have incorporated Zelon into countless patterns, and after twenty years it remains the main tenant in most of our fly designs today...

 

...Antron vs. Zelon

 

The age old question.

 

These two terms are mistakenly used by tiers. The fact is, antron and zelon are entirely different materials and should not be confused with each other.

 

Antron is a synthetic fiber that imitates the natural characteristics of silk and is best thought of in this manner. It has a fuzzy feel and it subtly adds sparkle and sheen to your flies because of this silky nature. It's primarily used for wet flies and nymphs, as the individual fibers tend to stick to one another and mat when wet. Antron makes excellent wet fly wings and bodies when you want to add some motion and sheen; in a more limited use it can be used on dry flies in conjunction with other materials that will float the fly.

 

Zelon is a synthetic fiber that is made to hold its shape. The individual fibers do not mat when wet, retaining translucency and luster. The fibers also have a tendency to crinkle, making zelon the best material to use for natural looking shucks and wings. It's a great dry fly material when tied loosely on the hook, and, it's a great wet fly material when a tightly wound, segmented body is desired. Check out the Micro Zelon for small flies.

 

 

In short, think antron when you tie bodies and wet fly wings. Think zelon when you tie shucks, dry fly wings, wet fly wings, or bodies. A final note: Zelon can only be obtained from Blue Ribbon Flies or Umpqua...

 

***************

 

Then again (?), BRF is in the business of selling Z-Lon...if it was the same as Antron, they would not have, nor continue to have, the sole market of Z-Lon...nonetheless, I agree, Z-Lon/Antron are not the same synthetic materials.

 

 

 

[Hot Tuna 0]

That's it Kev...I love Jorma and Jack and have been a huge fan since the 70's...also I like to fish for false albacore and bonito so there you have another meaning to Hot Tuna...a multipurpose internet name!

Thanks for that info from BRF...

All the best,

John

[timenet 0]

What may I ask is the Davy Wotton SLF fiber :help: does it sink float?

[KevCompton 0]

A Welsh Mystery that sinks.

 

http://www.partridge-of-redditch.co.uk/Hooks/SLF/slf1.htm

 

[VERN-O 0]

good shepard

embryonic journey

serpent dreams

 

TUNA baby!!!!!!!!!!

 

If you don't know Jorma, you don't know Jack!!!!!!!!!!

[VERN-O 0]

good shepard

embryonic journey

serpent dreams

 

TUNA baby!!!!!!!!!!

 

If you don't know Jorma, you don't know Jack!!!!!!!!!!

[VERN-O 0]

good shepard

embryonic journey

serpent dreams

 

TUNA baby!!!!!!!!!!

 

If you don't know Jorma, you don't know Jack!!!!!!!!!!

[nemoblackdog 0]

Talk about confusion...

 

"Poly" is such a terrible name for what fly tiers generally use - polypropylene.

 

Since there is so much polyESTER fiber out there, it's easy to confuse with polypropylene. Not the same stuff, but polyester fiber is probably more common in most yarns than is polypropylene if we exclude the fly tying market. FFers should've at least gone with "polypro" like the rest of the world does.

 

Tri-lobal is in no way unique to Antron. Many fibers made for the purposes of "sheen" - including many (most?) carpet fibers have some sort of multi-lobe cross section. The purpose in the carpet textile industry is to add brightness and an ability to hide dirt. Google "trilobal" and most of what you'll find is specifically *not* referring to Antron. In short, there's lots of trilobal "sparkly" fiber out there that is not Antron.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MayflyMeyhem 0]

Zlon and Antron are both made from Nylon. Nylon has a specific gravity >1.0, meaning it sinks. Polyester has a specific gravity closer to 1.4, meaning it really sinks. Polypropylene has a specific gravity of 0.9 meaning it floats. For reference, water has a specific gravity of 1.0. Higher sinks, lower floats.

 

Having said that, the fibers of many of these tying materials have tremendous surface area which works with the water surface tension to float. However, when saturated and no longer in play with water surface tension, Nylon and Polyester will sink. Polypropylene will always float.

 

Finally, the weight of the hook combined with saturated nylon or polyester dubbed body will sink just about any other material except foam where an abundance is used.