Outsourcing fly tying to Asia

[Faster Fish 0]

There is a woman at the Knotty Pine Inn in Baldwin Michigan. She ties flies for local shops that also get some of their flie from Rainy's Operation that is based in Denver but she has a factory in Chaing Mai Thialand. She might be able to give you some insights into the effect that you are looking for. I don't rember her name. She and her husband run the inn. Very friendly people, I usually stay there when I am in town fishing. Her number is (231) 745-9757.

 

Randy

[Bruce Derington 0]

We as fly tiers don't feel the threat of out sourcing but I can tell you there are alot of foreign flies comming in and quite a large amount from Kenia. The Ebay stores are cleaninng up! They pay as little as 1.50-2.00 a dozen

I know more and more non-tyers are buying these flies and in defense of 3rd world tiers, many are Quality flies.American tyers can,t compete with those crazy prices , nor should they. I say buy American :headbang: The commercial tyers I know have all the work they can handle, But I can see where this may change based on the cheaper flies being made available. The weird thing about the out sourcing is the bigger fly suppliers and fly shops are getting rich through buying low and not passing their savings on to the consumer

 

 

 

p.s. I have a couple of sites I check on and you can buy a dozen flies for 7.00

[day5 0]

Most anglers that buy mass produced flies do not expect the best or are fooled by the brand name. And most of them plan to loose them in trees anyway. I do not consider my patterns local but they are designed and tested locally. I do some tying for a local shop but not much. The money is not as good as tying for my own sales.

[wiggleminnow 0]

I have a fly with Umpqua Feather Merchants, Todd's Wiggle Minnow. I still tie it for the local shops here in East Tn. If you have a unique fly that is a big fish producer you can stay pretty busy. I supply the shops with my fly and at $4.00 a fly it goes out the door, I can barely keep up with the two shops here. Thats why I was always nervous about going online with it, I just didn't know if I could keep up with the demands of it. Thats why I merchant it out to Umpqua. I'm actually going to go online with it tying it myself just because the royalties are not that much and I know that the buyer is getting a good product. Thats the biggest problem about selling a fly to a big company getting them to tie it right, remember your name is on that fly and if it's not tied well you're most likely going to get the blame. I have alot of unique patterns that I could probably outsource as well but I'm not going to. It's not whats it cracked up to be. Support the US tyers. You'll always most likely get a better product.

[Ribs1 0]

This is a very interesting subject. I am a part time commercial tier supplying 2 shops and a few private clients and guides. Even in my own small world, the celebrity thing is a big factor. My flies usually fly out the door faster than I can tie them because people around here know that I tailor the flies to our specific river and fishing conditions. People also know that I personally fish our local river 60-70 days a year and test my flies before selling them. On the flip side, we have a huge hatch of Ephoron Leukon in August and the best pattern for that around here is a white wulff. I can't tie a white wulff as cheap as I can buy them and I can't even tie them as well as the Umpqua tiers, so I buy them from the shop (or trade my flies for them). I think there is a place for both.

 

Another good resource for your research would be Rusty Gates who owns Gates Au Sable lodge in Grayling Michigan. Rusty is a celebrity tier in his own right, but more interesting is that at least 90% of the flies sold in his shop are tied by local tiers, and he probably sells more flies than anyone else in Michigan. It seems every part time or full time fly tier that I meet has tied flies for Rusty's shop at one time or another.

 

Here in Michigan we have only a few fly tiers who I would say tie close to full time and have earned celebrity status, including Bear Andrews, Jerry Regan, and Rusty Gates.

 

Thanks

 

 

[JSzymczyk 0]

I'd be really interested to know what percentage of fly fishermen tie their own.

 

I started tying as a kid, before I started fly fishing. I don't know why, just the way it happened. Niether my Dad or my older brother were big fly fishermen at that time. I still vividly remember one day when I had my Dad's old Phillipson fly rod (I still have it...) out and raised a nice rainbow on some gawdawful bright red and gold wet I had ginned up. One more cast (or what might have been mistaken for a cast) and nothing, but I could see him lying behind a rock. I was shaking as I knotted on a #6 black wooly worm I had tied- I flipped it out and the trout whacked it but good, that was the first fish other than creek chubs I ever caught on a fly rod. To this day, I can count the number of fish on one hand I have caught on flies I did not tie myself.

 

My Dad, when he was young and fly fished some of the premier and long gone trout streams in Pennsylvania, never tied a fly. My bro likes to fly fish, but only dabbles with tying a few simple but productive patterns. He buys on e-bay a lot.

 

Fly tying is to fly fishing what handloading is to many hunters and shooters (me too) ... just way more satisfying to catch something on one's own work. I can't really relate this successfully to other fishing methods though----- I prefer to fly fish, but I'm right there with a light spinning rod too, I'm not a snob. There's no way in the world I could sit there at my bench and make a #7 silver Rapala but I'll tell you what, it's my favorite freshwater lure from Alaska to Florida, Maine to Nevada. Anyhow, well, way OT now. So in an attempt to answer the question "why tie our own instead of buy" I know for me it's simply a creative outlet that dovetails neatly with another pastime, and a very satisfying hobby. As far as saving money, YEAH RIGHT. (same with handloading.)

[nemoblackdog 0]

Interesting discussion. I'll make a few points to add to the discussion.

 

Many of us (most of us here) tie at least some of our own flies. Though most would say that we're not doing it to save money, there is no doubt that on a per-fly basis, they come out to be pretty inexpensive, even when using relatively expensive materials like good genetic hackle - pennies per fly. That said, with the exception of that good genetic hackle and other feathers, most of what we tie into our own homemade flies comes from abroad. Hooks, synthetic fibers of all sorts, foam, beads and even thread - the majority of it comes from places outside of the US.

 

As to the issue of outsourcing "pushing out" local tyers, I think we need to put this in perspective. When compared to the effects on large industry (autos, textiles, consumer goods, etc...), the fly tying "industry" isn't even a speck on the a$$ of a gnat. Even if we were to go to the extreme hypothetical case of there being no offshore fly-tying, given the sheer expense of living in the US (even in lower income regions), it would be hard to justify fly tying as a volume industry. I'm not talking celebrity/specialty flies here, but run-of-the-mill adams, EHCs, pheasant tails, hare's ears, glo-bugs, etc... At the prices fisherman demand to pay, and the huge volumes of those common patterns that would need to be produced, how can anybody make a significant living? To tie the volumes needed, you need a factory sized operation, and there's just no viable way to find the workforce to fill such a factory at such low pay (at least with any sense of legitimacy).

 

Again assuming there were no offshore tying, given even the bare minimum wages one would have to pay a US based factory, the price of flies would probably be so high as to force many fly fisherman to tie their own. Insufficient demand and no viable prospects for onshore volume fly production.

 

Simply put, there are some products the US can no longer afford to make, even if there were no "competition" from outside labor forces.

[dontheo 0]

FLY TYING IS LIKE ANY OTHER CRAFT. IT'S MUCH LIKE PAINTING A PICTURE. SOME DO IT FOR FUN OR RELAXATION, SOME DO IT FOR A HOBBY AND LIKE THE ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT COMES WITH IT AND SOME DO IT AS A LIVING OR COMBINATION OF THE ABOVE. FLIES ARE TIED FOR VAROUS REASONS WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS TO CATCH FISH. SOME ARE TIED AS ARTWORK ITSELF EITHER TRYING TO MATCH A STYLE OF PATTERN FORM YEARS AGO OR REALISM OF THE LOOK OF THE FLY. JUST LIKE ARTWORK THERE ARE DIFFENT STYLES AND MEDIUMS AND THE END PRODUCT IT IS VERY SUBJECTIVE. MATCHING FLYS WITH HATCHES AND REALISM IS WAY OVER RATED WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO CATCHING FISH.

 

FOR ME, I LIKE TO DO A LITTLE OF ALL OF IT. TYING SOME IN A PARTICULAR STYLE OR TRYING TO MAKE A FLY AS REALISTIC AS POSSIBLE OR COPY SOME FAMOUS PATTERN FROM YEARS GONE BY.

 

HOWEVER, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO CATCHING FISH, SOME OF THE UGLIEST AND BUGGIER LOOKING THINGS THAT ONE COULD NOT SELL OFTEN WORK THE BEST.

 

AS FAR AS OVERSEAS LABOR GOES WE AND OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS ARE IN FOR A BIG SUPRISE AND ARE JUST BEGGINING TO FEEL THE EFFECTS. AS IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME BY A GOOD FRIEND FROM OVERSEAS, HE SAID, TED, DO YOU REMEMBER IN COLLEGE WHEN THERE WAS ALWAYS SOME ASIAN KID IN CLASS WHO SEEMED SO SMART AND WAS GETTING STRAIGHT "A"'S. hE SAID, HE ISN'T OR WASN'T ANY SMARTER THAN YOU, HE WAS JUST THERE TO WORK. wHILE YOU DID YOUR WORK AND THEN DRANK YOUR BEER, ETC HE WAS BACK AT THE ROOM STUDYING.

 

THE POINT IS THAT FOR EVERY PERSON HERE IN THE US THERE ARE 10 OTHERS IN THE WORLD LINED UP TO TAKE THEIR JOBS. AND IF WE DON'T WISE UP, THEY WILL.

 

ONE WOULD THINK WE WOULD HAVE LEARNED OUR LESSON WHEN THE JAPANESE AUTO AND STEEL MAKERS KICKED OUR BUTTS AND STILL ARE. REGINALD JONES WAS CEO OF GENERAL ELECTRIC AT THE TIME AND HE SAID IT ALL, "WE WERE JUST TOO COCKY, WE ASSUMED AMERICAN PRODUCERS WERE THE BEST".

[mnorton 0]

IMO looks like a lot of fly fishing related stuff is be outsourced.......

 

QUALITY/QUANTITY VS COST.......Just heard a gentleman speak the other noght of this

 

He says quality is just as good as before(mainly in the rods and reels but some in flies too) and the other is that most of the people TYING these flies have never flyfished a day in their life .....I think the big companies are looking for the most buck for there bang if you know what i mean........I wuld rather tie my own or support a local fly shop .................

 

Heard some other stuff at this meeting too about some disturbing accusations that go on in this outsourcing as far as labor and stuff goes but not gonnaa fling names/or companies names around just would not be right..

 

Katy good luck with your article......

[Buzzby 0]

Katy,

 

It appears that you'll have no lack of information/opinion from what I've just read. Valid points all and indicative of the American tradition of adaptability.

 

Raises some questions within questions. Have priorities been overlooked in favor of notoriety, i.e., tying flies to fool fish vs. celebrity/signature/outsource/patent tyers. The Great American Taffy Pull strikes again. Nothing is sacred when $$$ is involved. Flies of yesteryear seldom had the tyer's name attached to them; Green Highlander, Gray Ghost, Hare's Ear Nymph, Carrie Stevens or Mary Orvis Marbury's flies. In contrast, consider modern fly names.

 

Perusing through catalogs specializing in outsourced flies indicates that trout flies selections are more abundant than saltwater or steelhead flies. Since local tyers can't compete with certain outsourced patterns perhaps they should consider tying patterns that foreign companies can't economically compete with. The Beatty's specialize in hairwings and Peter Smith in Maine ties for many Keys guides who, because they guide 200-250 days a year, have no time to tie. By comparison, northeast and northwest guides are on the water far less and tie more of their own flies. Adaptability.

 

All the best with your research,

 

FOOD FOR THOUGHT