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Ephemerella

Ephemerella / Red Rover - CSS

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This is my 2nd attempt, and actually the third attempt at the body. I retied the fly and completed it, becoming attempt #1 (not pictured-- let's just say it provided lots of learning opportunities ;) ) Here is the left view of this fly:

post-4200-1176890972_thumb.jpg

I can post a larger image (2048 x 1536) if you request.

 

Comments:

Fun! Instructions OUTSTANDING!

Thank you Matt, Dave, Charlie! Your coaching was great and I am amazed and thankful you were able to reply to my emailed questions, pictures, and request for coaching.

 

This fly is the 2nd set of married wings I have ever done (first was my Red Rover #1--not too pretty), but it did take me 2 attempts at mounting, which slightly misshaped the wing.

We won't go into how many times I undid stuff (this body took 3 times, and is probably why the tag floss began to self-destruct)

 

My own list of critiques submitted to the mentors

A few things wrong:

-Underwing just peeking out of the top of the wing

-Tag floss began to get loose and "drift" over the tinsel tip--you can see

an errant floss fiber or 2 (don't know how--was fine until maybe I touched

the floss while winging?)

-Tag still not quite lined up with lines of the body --is this just the

Berlin wool being a little fluffy?

-Herl butt still a little weak, and the underside got a little mangled by

the wool body tie in. Should have matched its width to the underwing black

barring width.

-Seems herl butt got pushed back by wool body

-A few errant wool fibers near butt (visible on left side picture)

-A little too much gap between hackle stem and the tinsel rib.

-Hackle still has a few errant fibers sticking up or pointing backwards

rather than down

-Throat a little scraggly and should be swept back a little to be exactly

symmetric with wing about hook shank

-Bottom fiber of top wing section (GP tail) begins to unmarry at tie in

-Far wing tip of 3rd band (turkey) sticks out behind tip of near wing

-Cheek should line up with turkey (3rd band in wing) not bottom band

(peacock) -it is correct on the left side, but not on the right.

-Left side JC cheek is from same side of JC cape as right side--has

wrong-way curvature

- I don't think the wing shape is exactly right--hard to figure on this

hook-- Possibly tail should be shorter and wing and topping lower (more

parallel to the hook)

-Wing tip, tail, and topping not precisely meeting, but not bad, if I say so

myself...

-Two stray GP crest fibers look like horns splaying out-- they probably join

the rachis before the tie down bend, and so got bent by the thread.

-Head a little rough, a couple coats of laquer over the black laquer will

shine it up and fill in the little thread bumps. -I need some help here in

making the head, I think...

 

The mentors list of critiques/improvements which I'll summarize

- Tag should be tapered not beveled

- Tail a little long and high

- Cheeks should be mounted with stems wing centered not centerd on hook shank

- More even ribs, slightly increasing space over wider part of body

- Wing should not be tapered but more tips more even

- Crest a little high and a little long-also be sure mounted on yellow not white part of stem [i think it is...]

- A little more shank needs to protrude from head

 

...

I'm sure you all will have more.

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Nicely done!

 

Don't worry day5, once you see my wing, you will think yours was perfect. :lol:

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Nice job! Also good job on your critique. The big one that sticks out at me is the wing shape, however guys seem to post a lot of flies with that wing shape, so maybe since it looks pretty much the same on both flies that's just your style :dunno: That GP tail is a son of a gun isn't it :cursing: You'll see when I post my flies tonight, but the tips on one side of the GP I recieved weren't married and wouldn't marry to each other. I mentioned it to the mentors and Charles gave me the instructions for a Woolite bath so I tried that and still no luck. It married great to the Turkey though :lol: That stuff was put on this earth to drive men mad.

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Alex, I know, what you are writing about and now I also know, why these are called "married". If you don't find the right pieces together, they split after a short time.

Still struggling

 

Hartmut

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Nice job! Also good job on your critique. The big one that sticks out at me is the wing shape, however guys seem to post a lot of flies with that wing shape, so maybe since it looks pretty much the same on both flies that's just your style :dunno: That GP tail is a son of a gun isn't it :cursing: You'll see when I post my flies tonight, but the tips on one side of the GP I recieved weren't married and wouldn't marry to each other. I mentioned it to the mentors and Charles gave me the instructions for a Woolite bath so I tried that and still no luck. It married great to the Turkey though :lol: That stuff was put on this earth to drive men mad.

 

Alex - 'style' is CHOICE not accident - DON'T fall into the trap of rationalising problems to avoid correcting them - it'll ruin your development as a tyer!

 

The tips going like this are the result of too many attempts at mounting without readjusting the wings - they gradually slip into this shape and should be corrected before remounting.

 

GP tail is like that for ALL of us - the best policy is to keep it at the top of the wing (as was done traditionally) - this helps keep it out of mischief.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

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Ephemerella,

 

I think you have done well with your fly. It may have its flaws; you or others can recognize them possibly, but to me, its beautiful.

 

Tying this fly, or I should say, trying to tie this fly, has been an experience for me. I just started tying flies a couple of months ago and thought that getting in this class would be a great move and really jump start me for the future. This is the same thing I did a year ago when I picked up my first flyrod, and the plan really worked there.

 

Tying a Classic Salmon Fly as a true beginner, as mentioned no more than two months and a few flies before jumping into this, has been a little different than casting!

 

So far, I have made it through the body multiple times, only to tear it up and start again. I have taken a few days off, two actually, from working on it and will start again tonight. I am having fun and even though it hasn't turned out as I wanted yet, I have been learning. I can get all of the body parts on; I just can't conquer the proportions yet. My body, the floss portion, looks like a cigarette rather than a cigar. The tail has been too long and without enough upward curve.

 

Does anyone have suggestions or images on making a fly body cigar-shaped? I think I'm going to have to overlay the floss more heavily over the body and then reduce that greatly toward the ends to give a better body. In looking, I see several others are having a very similar problem to mine.

 

The next one I do is not going to come out looking like a cigarette if I have to work on it all night and tomorrow, a day off for me, and then I've got this weekend, too. After that, it'll be trying to get the tail better shaped and properly placed. Challenging to say the least!

 

Ray

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Does anyone have suggestions or images on making a fly body cigar-shaped? I think I'm going to have to overlay the floss more heavily over the body and then reduce that greatly toward the ends to give a better body. In looking, I see several others are having a very similar problem to mine.

 

Wool bodies are a special case really coz, having worked up a nice underbody, you're plastering it with a sort of fly dressing equivalent of porridge over the top - fly 3 which has an all floss body is the one where a really good underbody really matters.

 

It's really a case of practice and learning to flatten the floss near the tail and partially overlap the unflattenend floss towards the head (sounds like we should be calling this 'floss control') so the bulk stacks up. Rather than a true cigar - you want to aim for a 'weight forward' shape - but remember to start tapering back down near the head to give you room for winging over.

 

Personally I also combine floss and thread for the underbody - all floss tends (I'm actually currently using Uni Big Fly thread for my bodies - doesn't flatten very well but is nice and firm) to be a bit squidgy and prone to lumps whereas just using the floss to add bulk but doing most of the work using tying thread - which is much less of a 'blunt instrument' and can be used to fill in the smallest of imp[erfections easilly.

 

Cheers

Dave

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Personally I also combine floss and thread for the underbody - all floss tends (I'm actually currently using Uni Big Fly thread for my bodies - doesn't flatten very well but is nice and firm) to be a bit squidgy and prone to lumps whereas just using the floss to add bulk but doing most of the work using tying thread - which is much less of a 'blunt instrument' and can be used to fill in the smallest of imp[erfections easilly.

 

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Dave! I was about to have a Classic Salmon Fly body breakdown. I am going to order some of that thread now. I'll try again this afternoon and tomorrow.

 

Ray

 

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Dave Carne is right, the wing shape was NOT "style". Although the peacock on one side was so short that I had maybe 1/8" forward of the tie in, and this made me nervous it would squirt out when tied down.

 

Ray,

Cigar body---took me a while to think that one through, like a chess match. What I came up with is to take the forward loose tag of the floss and wrap backwards to the thread point on the floss. Then wrap the floss backwards to just shy of the rear of the hook barb--that is actually too far backwards--makes the tag too bulky!!-- then wrap forwards. To make the cigar shape, when I got about 1/8" from where I wanted the floss to end, about 3/32" short of the end of the hook shank, I wrapped backwards about 3/4 of the body, then forwards again. Near the point where I reverse the direction, I let the floss flatten more and wiggle it left and right to work it in smoothly (Garrett Booth, the streamer tyer, showed me that trick). For the fattest part, I went over yet again, finally working forward to the front end.

 

I have no idea if this is the right way, but is worked OK. Also on the first body (razored) I learned how much the body gets wider with the Berlin wool. Again I flattened it out and used the wiggle trick--some places that worked, other places it ended up lumpy--wool seems to bind to itself--the fibers are not smooth like the floss. Any time I then wrapped thread back over the body (happens several times between the tag-herl-tail, the rib, the wool, and the tie off at the head) I spun the thread flat before wrapping to keep a low profile.

 

I don't know how long this took the rest of the students but Body #1 took me 4 hours up to step 14 the first time. Fly #1, starting over, took me basically all day Saturday 8 - 4 with an hour lunch, and Fly #2, the one posted here, took me all day Sunday, 9-4 with an hour for lunch and an hour walk to clear the cobwebs out of my head and unkink these old bones. I have been tying basic dries and nymphs since 1997 and Rangeley streamers for a year and a half.

 

I think you are really to be complimented if you can do these flies with less than a year of tying!

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I think you are really to be complimented if you can do these flies with less than a year of tying!

 

Right now, the doing hasn't been done successfully, but the trying keeps getting done time after time. I'm hoping the doing does advance a little more quickly soon, but however it goes, I have started; I'm having fun, and I'm going to keep going. Somewhere along the line, I will be tying Classic Salmon Flies, too. It may just take me a little longer to get this down than I had hoped.

 

I keep thinking back to what Ronn said a few days ago, "Don't try this without knowing what your doing, and Use some guidance. You can't do it all on your own." That is not a direct quote, but it is a summation I believe. The guidance it great, just like Dave describing how he uses thread to help build the body, and then, your description of the work you did with your's.

 

Thanks,

 

Ray

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Bud Guidry is my idol when it comes to making bodies shaped properly. Here is a link to a post he did about it. I hope it helps.

 

Bud's Body (I couldn't resist that title)

 

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