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Hi,

 

I have been practicing setting wings with a few different materials to get the feel for it. I am using a 2/O hook and tried the wing by itself and with tippets. Materials I have tried so far are goose shoulder and turkey tail feathers. I have torn up a hand full of shoulder feathers trying to figure out the look I want to get. I can mount the wing of choice ok and looks good on both sides. What I was trying to go by was the gap of the hook, cutting the slips that wide. I ran into and issue of the wing being to small because I measured what I was going to cut off the feather close to the stem of the feather if that makes sense. I am trying to achieve a full wing and I want it to set up a bit higher off the body. Maybe I should measure where I cut in the middle of what is going to be the slip. Any insight into this I would appreciate.

 

Thanks again,

 

Keith

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Kieth-I would stick with turkey for your married wings.You will get a much stronger wing that way.

When you go to cut your wings,make sure both sides have the exact same amount of fibers!Right now I would suggest going to more fibers than 28.And that is still pushing it a little.

For getting your wing higher-A high wing is a different style of fly for more advanced tiers.Right now I would stick with the basics.Tie your wing in low then when your up their,try it different.Hope this helps some.Steven

 

PS-If I have given any wrong info,beat me with a stick!

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For getting your wing higher-A high wing is a different style of fly for more advanced tiers.Right now I would stick with the basics.Tie your wing in low then when your up their,try it different.Hope this helps some.Steven

 

PS-If I have given any wrong info,beat me with a stick!

 

"A high wing is a different style of fly for more advanced tiers" sorry Zip but that's complete and utter cod's wallop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! High, 'up' wings are the result of BAD winging technique (unless you are talking about BROAD wings - in which case do be wary of letting the matcho element of difficulty blind you to good proportion) - once it's finished its 'sprouting' section the wing should like virtually parallel to the body (maybe 10º up).

 

In terms of wing width DON'T try to rigidly follow 'rules' about gape width and the like - aim for good proportion to your eye - remember a longer wing will also tend to look relatively slimmer and also that goose particularly compresses once on so that the wing comes out maybe 30% slimmer than before it was tied on.

 

I would however strongly agree that turkey is the best winging material generally available from a tying point of view, though the 'satine' surface of goose gives a better colour density (goose is however very awkward to work with because it's so relatively soft when compared to bustard, peacock and turkey tail - meaning it tends to fold and collapse in the wing).

 

Cheers

Dave

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Dave made some excellent points. don't worry about wing width. use or build a wing thats insync with your fly . the 28 fiber wing that steven talks of is a guide used when beginners are learning to build wings and tie them on. it's a comfortable size wing to build and handle when first starting out. as you develope your techniques you can move on to wider or larger wings. this 28 slip wing is used on smaller hooks like 2/0, 3/0 or 4/0 hooks. any larger and the wing would not have enough width. dave didn't mention this but i think he would agree, stay away from hugh hooks at this time. 3/0 or 4/0 hooks are a good hook to train yourself on. you have lots of room to strap on materials and the wing needed to get a nice shape doesn't have to be overly large or wide. that full look you mentioned can be achieved by tying in an underwing and other materials like JC to add fullness to a fly

 

on wing height, i believe there are many variables. the classic fly , as dave mentioned, wings are not set with very much height. on free style, artistic or impressionistic flies. your imaginations the limit. i have tied flies with higher set wings but they are all flies that had no toppings. the wings were set to compensate the lost of height because there would be no topping to the fly. it just looked wrong without a higher set wing.

 

as dave mentioned. i would try to tie my wings in closer to the body. it will teach you good fundemental material application techniques. reading your post i think i understand your cutting the wings( the whole wing ) from one feather? aren't you marrying strips? you write that your cutting strips as wide as the hook gap. when i first began tying i was also trying to cut a wing from a feather. the whole wing strip from one side and the other from the other side of the feather. you can form a set of wings but they are all one color. in my experience, this for some reason, is harder to tie in than a married wing. dave might know something about this. it seems a married wing is stronger than if you cut the whole wing off a single feather. it's tough explaining this to anyone with printed words. if you would like you can call me and maybe i can best explain it to you over the phone. my number is 985 696 0102. don't be shy, Bud

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As my gumbo loving chum has said, I am a GREAT believer in staying smallish to learn/practice - the MOST important elements of learning to dress full dressed patterns is learning thread efficiency and attention to detail (keeping the number of wraps down).

 

The best way to FORCE yourself to learn this is to keep the size down - then if you choose to go up in size (which I tend not to - or would tend not to if I wasn't so busy shouting at joiners/painters/builders/plasterers/plumbers/gas fitters etc etc) you'll find that you miraculously achieve the tiny heads that always seem to have elluded you (don't mess around with putting the hackle in front of the underwing - it's more trouble than it's worth if you ask me).

 

Do be wary of following 'rules' - most were invented as mantras by people who didn't actually know too much about what they were talking about - be it 5 rib wraps or 24/28 fibres in a wing - they should be taken as a generality - a long shank hook with 5 fine oval wraps looks bloody stupid, equally 5 broad ribs on a tiny fly looks equally daft, similarly 24 fibres of Argus Tail is about three times as broad as 24 fibres of swan shoulder - so in every case trust your judgment, examine flies you like the look of think about what works and what in your eyes doesn't and then pinch the best bits.

 

Finally read everything you can get your hands on - even if you don't tie in true original style (practically none of us do totally) the information is of huge value in cueing your own ideas and technique.

 

Dave 'Ranting' Carne

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I won't try to add too much to what Bud and Dave have said as they are two of the best in the world at this (Bud being one still practicing, Dave being a has been who still knows alot even if he has forgotten how to tie). The only thing I have not seen mentioned would be to hump your wing at the front portion if you wish to have a slightly higher wing set while still paralleling the shank. The easiest way for people on the forum to help may be to show a picture so others can offer assistance and areas to be improved on the fly. Hope all of this makes sense.

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Dave C-A higher wing can be a result of a messed up wing that was accidentaly set to high,but if you are doing a fly with a keel and a married wing,the wing would have to be higher to match the flow of the keel.And it is just my opinion that it is a more complicated fly.My 2 cents

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No Implications...just observations

 

A fly's wing and a womens boobs are not the end all be all of the total dressing...but they tend to draw a large (disproportionate) share of our attention. As a matter of fact I know men and tyers who are so obsessed with (boobs/wings) that they see little else. Big, small, standing high or drooping low...they all have their place in the eye of the beholder. As practicing plastic surgeons it is our task to achieve the skill to achieve our vision. It's really nice when the wing tip matches the tail crests tip. but as Blacker has demonstrated...the boob doesn't have to touch the belly button to look good. I like the silicone properties of turkey myself. In any event. I achieved my best satisfaction with wings and boobs by simply playing with them until I got to the point where I realized that they were not as important as I made them up to be.

 

still love em though...........dg

 

PS: One thing to consider though...with all things being equal ( soft, sateen goose or structurally sound turkey) both will be more conducive to shaping the longer it gets...............

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Gotz-What is you position on flat wings?hehehe

 

Good way to look at it-I completely understood it!

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Keith,

 

I would tend to disagree, to an extent, with some of my experienced and esteemed colleagues. For a beginner, I would try and mount a turkey tail fibered-wing of no more than 18-21 fibers, approximately. For practice, I would take matching slips of wild turkey tail and just mount 2-3 dozen sets of wings on a Saturday afternoon. Save the dyed turkey for your flies! Be sure to have a body +/- an underwing, so that you can get a feel for tying down against those preceding structures. After you are adept at 18-21 fibers, then move up in width as the hook and other components dictate.

 

If you have, or can borrow, a copy of Mike Radencich's book on tying the classic salmon fly, there is a rather exhaustive chapter on mounting married salmon fly wings.

 

Best from Nashville-

Stack Scoville

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Dr. Scoville modestly fails to mention that he is the author of that chapter! It has a great deal of good information. Like all technical skills, winging is easier to learn by watching than reading, though good text (such as Stack's) is a place to start. I do agree with him that practicing with lower end turkey and with a body and underwing in place, is valuable. I sort of progressed (if you can call it that :hyst: ) from doing classic wet fly wings to simple strip wings to married wings, and recommend that approach, much as Stack is suggesting.

Also showing great modesty, he left DaveG's breast analogies alone. :hyst:

Leigh

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i like big brea, ahhhhh i mean wings. they look nice.

 

as crazy as gotz discription was its easy to understand. we all have our preferances and again, as has been mentioned 63,785,753 times. it what pleases you thats most important. we as fellow colleages need to respect the ideas of others. it's called change and it's a continuous process. have a look in your tackle box. not all the lures look the same do they !

 

it's all been said before, if your tying classic by all means follow the guidelines. if your cup of tea is artistic flies. you can tie your wings facing forward if you like. there are no rules to this style of tying, but, i have noticed and i think everyone here would agree. most of us that do tie artistic fly's stick within the boundries of what a salmon fly is. they still retain the apperance of a salmon fly.

 

we've gotten off track. keith. i'll say again, you need help building your wings give me a call and i'll do what i can to help you. as Matt mentioned, i'm still practicing and learning but i could at the least , still show you how to use the siccors to snip the barbs off a feather.

 

so with that said, have fun and enjoy your new found hobby. theres a treasure trove of knowledge here for those who want to learn. theres some great people here willing to help others so please ask if you need help with anything,

 

Bud

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Hi Everyone,

 

I guess I have quite a bit of home work for this weekend!!!! I really appreciate everyones input and replies. I guess the look that has always drawn my attention are the "broad" wings. I know I have to start simple and work up, that the foundation of skills are the key. I do have Mikes book and dvd set as well as a library of vhs tapes John sent me to copy. The hooks I have to work with are 2/0 right now. The reason I just took slips from both sides of a feather is I figured it would be better then wasting married wings. I was going to start out with the red rover pattern. Maybe I will tie the body and underwing, practice with that and then try to set the final wing. Bud I love your work and I will try to call you over the weekend for more insight. I will post pictures maybe by the end of the weekend of what I come up with and if you don't hear back from me thats probably not a good thing!!!! LOL!! just kidding. I am going to attend the show in November for Sommerset N.J. I don't know who is going, but I look forward to meeting some of you in person. Thanks again for everything I am excited to see what I can come up with for my first crack at it.

 

Keith

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i'll be at sommerset keith. just look for the most handsome guy there, that will be me. i'll likely be standing next to a little short guy with beady eyes. real mean looking, that will be john.

 

call me any time

 

985 696 0102 is my cell

 

got your massage mark, sorry to hear of your trouble buddy. get it straightened out and get your butt to sommerset. it's going to be a great time for all there. we can take over the lounge after midnight. i can jump on the keyboard and you can sing. i don't know how to play music but if everyones drunk no one will notice. i'll just hit some of those white buttons over and over. turn it up real loud and jump around like we know what we're doing.

 

 

good luck on the thing,

 

Bud

 

Bud

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