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DaveG

A bone to pick

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I woke up cranky this morning and decided to get somethings off of my chest.

 

I hate Hip Hop, and rap music. I don't connect with the music or understand it in the least. However, because it is music, I can still recognize an accomplished drummer, sweet vocals etc, and have no problem acknowledging excellence when I see it. I, and many others, need encouragement; HOW MUCH DOES IT COST YOU TO RECOGNIZE AND ACKNOWLEDGE FINE WORK OR EFFORT WHEN YOU SEE IT? Nobody is asking you to endorse the style, or change your preference, it is simply a way that we support each other's efforts and recognize some basic human needs. I could give a crap whether you're a "True Classic tyer", a Freestyler only....or a person like me who is finding their way. I can ALWAYS find a way to support a tyer, not because they tie "my kind of fly", but because it is quite simple to indentify a nice tag, good flosswork, nice colors, a sweet sweep of the wing, or obvious effort, and comment on it. I guess I am simply encouraging all of us to let loose of our own preferences when we choose to encourge others.

 

As for you tyers who show up "now and then" for the sole purpose of displaying "your" wares. You'll hear nothing from me unless you're willing to give to others what you hope or expect to hear from them.

 

There....I've said it...I feel better now

 

dave gotzmer

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cant comment on em all dave, some of us hardly comment at all, not that i dont appreciate each and every post, also each and every effort....i dont feel i have the experience to comment at all.

 

agreed on the rap thing, my oppinion.....music shouldnt come from a machine

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I hope you all understand that this post is directed towards the more accomplished, experienced tier. They have so much to offer. And I still believe that if they've got the time to post their own fly, they can stop by an visit a bit with others.

 

dg

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DaveG, DAVEG.

 

you won our door prize, a brand new never used indian crow cape gift certificate from the guy that tried to shaft me for the JC cape !!!!!!

 

well said my friend, Bud

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Dave - I agree with your comment about giving feedback and acknowledgment of effort or special features on a fly. I try to do the same thing. Although I do not always give feedback on the classic and artistic salmon flies. I look at and admire every one that is posted but do not always comment. I tend to comment more on the salmon flies where someone is posting their work in an effort to learn to tye them. It has been really fun to watch Steven (Zip) learn to tye these beauties. I can't teach him anything in tying salmon flies, but I can clearly see and commend the effort and growth in every fly.

 

One of my favorite ways to pay a compliment to someone is to ask them a question about their work. "How did you create that body, wing, head, etc.?" By asking a question, I am trying to show that their work is special and I'd like to learn more about how it is done. I like the way questions open up an exchange between a tyer and the person asking the question. Recently Chris (streamertyer) and I got into a dialog on a simple black nose dace streamer. I found the discussion very helpful. It changed the way I tye the flies.

 

;)

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Two points here. First, I like the beats in hip hop & rap but the lyrics suck! I like about all music except bagpipes. Hurts my ears! No offense to the Scots among us!

 

Point two. At the risk of offending anyone I agree that one should participate fully in the forum where it is practical. There have been a few accomplished tyers who’ve seemingly just popped in from time to time to show off their flies to boost their egos but rarely if ever complemented anyone else. I figure it is just a lack in social skills on their part and in the end, really doesn’t matter. They know who they are and so do we. It’s not like we have some “special” group here that excludes anyone who doesn’t “measure up”. Any and everyone is welcome regardless of their skill level EVEN if they don’t tie the fancies!!!!! Actually, it is this very mix that makes this forum work. The free give and take. I am sure most of you have been on forums that routinely degrade into flaming and other childish behavior. It is remarkable that this forum has virtually none of that. Sure, there are disagreements on any given topic from time to time but on balance, this group seems more like a big family scattered all over the world.

 

Take the recent gathering out here at my place. I had never met face to face with Ted, Bud, Lee but had met John. Who would know if we would get along while sitting around the campfire. We did though. The chemistry of the group, including the fifteen or so who joined us for the BBQ was perfect. There wasn’t any single ego that seemed bigger than the rest. No friction over the four days or so.

 

I know that there are a lot of folks who read the posts on the forum who never post and for a variety of reasons. I wish they did but it is their choice. As long as we try to follow the “golden rule” (treat others ……….) in our interactions, things here will be good. Actually, if we did that everywhere (me included), things everywhere would be better.

 

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I look at the forum all most every day but do not reply much. I look and learn from all that do post their flies. some day I hope to post photos of my work when I fill that the work is not so sloppy but in time.

maybe I should post more comment about all the great work that you all have produced. James

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OK Dave G, Ronn, Bud, let me throw some gas on the flames...

I really don't feel qualified to comment on the flies you gents tie. IMHO they are amazing and awesome, but if you fouled up something, say an errant floss fiber or the throat a millimeter too long, I'm not sure I could tell nor would my comment would be worth anything.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, my uneducated comments on your tying are not going to make your tying better, nor mine, and honestly shouldn't carry much weight. In a few years, when I begin to get a better handle on the fundamentals of classics and then fool around with some experimental styles, then I guess you might pay attention to me. SO forgive me if I don't comment.

 

On the other hand, I might ask how you did something, so I could learn; certainly your feedback on the CSS and my stuff on the Classic Streamers forum was really helpful--I call that the graduate course in tying.

 

I suppose I could throw in my $0.02 on your stuff, --it's all amazing-- but my comments don't have much value...when Dave G tells Bud one of his masterpices is good, but the floss doesn't match the wing color, or Dave Carne tells Ronn that his latest concoction needs another fiber of bustard in the wing, then you, and all of us, should listen. If I said that you should flame me.

 

So that's why I'm not ready to lavish your work with praise--I think it's all fantastic--I guess I don't feel qualified yet to render an opinion of any value. Please forgive my lack of comments.

-E

PS: Looking forward to learning from you gents at Somerset

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I think this is really a good thread so far, keep it going.

 

I don't know if Dave considers me being in that group but I took it personally, first because I don't post much comments on other peoples flies and second because I like rap music :P

 

I don't considers myself being an experienced tyer (started tying salmon flies properly about a year ago) and fly tying is the last thing that I would do to build up my ego. The thing that is keeping me quiet is that I'd like to be polite but honest. I sometimes see in other flies what I would do differently but I always hesitate to post because most of the stuff is personal preference(like proportions) and I'm afraid I might upset the tyer, especially the beginners. Pointless complimenting just isn't for me (Great fly !!!). I'm a strong believer in constructive critisism. Of course I appreciate good tying and give credit when it's appropriate (though I usually don't post because everything that I would've said about the fly has already been said).

 

I've thought that the best way to let people know what kind of flies I like is by trying to tie them myself. Haven't succeeded in it yet but I'm slowly getting better and better at it. When I know how I can do it maybe then it's easier to teach others.

 

So the point was that I like the flies that people tie here. I just don't want to be seen as the guy who thinks he knows it all or as the guy who thinks everyone should tie as he does because that's something I'm not. Also don't want to be seen as the guy who posts his flies just to build up his ego and thinks that others aren't worthy of his comments, that's why I'm posting now.

 

Just my two cents

 

Timo

 

ps. Posting also takes a lot of time from me because I have to think of all the right words in English and check and doublecheck my posts :)

 

 

:ph34r:

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Heck No Timo:

 

I'm talking about those EXPERIENCED AND ACCOMPLISHED TYERS WHO ONLY POST THEIR FLIES. They rarely if ever provide comment on other's work. From my standpoint, the ONLY reason they post is to get complements and feed their ego. And, as Ronn said. they know who they are! I think everyone here at the forum understands that a person who lacks English skills or who is just starting out, lacks confidence, or feels unqualified cannot be expected to provide opinions or critique. I was afraid this post might be mis-understood, but I have every hope my meaning will be clear

 

dg

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DG - you're clear and Rap is a great analogy.

 

Timo, I'm amazed at the effort put out by you, Bruno, Sebastian, and the many others who post with English being a second or third language. :headbang:

 

The virtual world we have here is pretty amazing and certainly inspiring. I wouldn't spend to much time worrying about those on an ego trip, as it seems to take care of itself over the long haul.

 

 

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Very interesting topic!!!

 

I try to comment as many topics as I can.Not only to just see a fly but to learn and maybe help someone else learn something.

DaveG-I have to agree with you whole-heartedly on the comment thing.Why keep something from someone that could boost thier skills tremendously?Makes no scense to me.(I do like some hip hop though...lol)

 

Ray-Thank you for such a kind compliment.Really made my day!

 

-Steven

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I just would like to say, and feeling like a new guy on the block so to speak. this is just my observation, that this is the most extrodinary place on the planet. I mean that sincerely, i think most of us do not know each other except for being on here, yet we share with each other inspire each other, we even cry when there is a loss amongst us on here. yes there will always be those that take instead of giving or sharing. i think the thing to remember is that we all choose our paths, what we give is directly related to what we can expect to recieve from others. anyway i feel like ronn said, that if the world were like we are here to each other this world would be a far better place. something i think we all should share in feeling proud about, and for what its worth i think rap sucks too. Best regards Paul

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