Dryflies: How long should they float?

[Dart 0]

So, after seeing another member's post the other day about their dry fly floating for 10 minutes, it made me wonder how long mine would float. I started running water in the sink and dumped some flies in. Here's what I noticed:

 

Royal Wulffs are heavy dry flies. Apparently I need to load the hackle on even more and make every wrap of thread count in the posting of the wings. Perhaps try using less material for the wing. They did float for a while, but once they sank and became completely wet, picking them up and dropping them on the water resulted in them going straight to the bottom again. Keep in mind I've fly fished all of ONE time and made maybe 10-15 casts, so my knowledge is zilch, but I'm assuming a false cast to shake off the water would remedy this? Or am I tying the fly too heavy? (Sorry, no pics as my camera is broken).

 

If I'm wanting to add bouyancy to the fly, is moose mane better to use over buck tail for the fly tail? What are the effects on calf body hair vs kipp for the wing? I've tied some of both, but I haven't really noticed a difference in water testing.

 

Also, I tied a couple of little guys with a very light chartreuse silk body and ribbed it with 3 turns of XSM wire. Finished it off with about 5 turns of Grizzly hackle... it wasn't enough to keep it afloat. Straight to the bottom it went. That's using a size 14 XS XF dry fly hook. Is using any size of wire on a dry fly impossible, or am I just not using enough hackle and/or using too heavy of a wire?

 

 

 

 

 

[rockworm 0]

Dart

 

Most moose-, deer- and elk-hair is hollow and aids greatly to the buoyancy of your fly. Bucktail is not hollow and does not float so well.

 

Most dry flies will sink once they have absorbed enough water. And, although false-casting will remove some of this, you should probably invest in a bottle of floatant.

 

Increasing the amount of hackle will also help. Wulff tyed his flies very heavy and used 2 cock saddle feathers to float them!

 

[Dart 0]

Good info and thanks! How would 2 cock saddle hackles translate into using one genetic hackle though? Those things are pretty dang long.

[Skip48 0]

Remember I am a novis with flies, but after speaking with someone that knows more than I do, here is what I have to help my dry flies float longer.

 

I bought some "Water Shed" a waterproofing liquid that is not messy like some brands. Also Doc's Dry Dust to use before I go fishing and maybe just before making the first cast.

 

Skip

[rockworm 0]

Dart

 

You are right about the difference between today's genetic hackle and the stuff Wulff would have been using. From photos I have seen of his flies I am guessing he would have been putting on maybe 6-10 turns behind the wing and another 6-10 turns in front. But I am just guessing.

 

[Dart 0]

I just tied one with a deer body hair tail. Although I tied the tail a midge short, I can't get the sucker to sink... and I actually like the look of it better too. :headbang:

[Bruce Derington 0]

Sounds like you've solved your problem :dunno: Most guys do use some kind of fly floatant, I've heard of all kinds of stuff used such as scotch guard, rain-x, and silicon shoe saver. With use of these you should let them sit over night to dry completely. In the old days we used parafin wax and white gas in a small container, worked great. There are also many "paste" type of floatants readily available. I think Al Beatty may have posted a floatant(might be wrong about the name) Abolene? its in every drug store and one jar will last a lifetime. I think its a haircare product. I , however use a "dry" floatant that both works before I fish a fly and after(when its wet)' Simply put it in a 35 mm film canister ,leader attached, snap the lid shut and shake. they sell one called frogs something and runs as much as $5.95 for a jar the size of a 35 mm canister, BUT I found a cheaper product and I think its the same stuff. Its called Feather- Dri and its a product from Bohning Company. Its produced as an archery accessory, used for drying wet fletchings arrows. WORKS GREAT :headbang: One container will last a very long time

 

 

P.S. People are mistaken when they say Deer Hair is hollow, IT IS NOT :thumbsdown: If you had a cross section of the hair , you would see "air cells" throughout its length, except the tail.

[Dart 0]

Thanks for the tips, Bruce. Yeah, it feels like I'm tying with styrofoam.

 

The deer hair tail sat in a sink of water for an an hour and fifteen minutes before all the water leaked out of the sink. The fly was still floating, so for this pattern at least, I think I've got the solution. I just wished the hair was a darker color.

[Philly 0]

It looks like you solved part of the floatation problem.As far as wire for dry flies. I don't normally use ribbing on my dry flies, bu I do a couple where I rib them. One I'll tie from size 12 down to size 20. It's an emerger/cripple pattern. The other is a midge pattern, that I tie from size 20 down to size 26. The wire I use is hair thin. I salvaged it from a couple of old computer mouses they were tossing out at work. I've salvaged copper, red, blue, green and silver from them.

Both flies are tied on a TMC 2488. The first has a trailing shuck of rattail, the body is wrapped pheasant tail and I counter wrap it with the wire. All the floatation is in the front of the hook. The wing is snowshoe hare, the thorax a wrapped yellow CDC feather, and I make 5 or 6 turns of hackle through it.

For the midge pattern, I use a few strands of white rattail for the trailing shuck and the body. The thread color determines the body color as the rattail becomes translucent when wet. I make three to 5 wraps of wire over the rattail. I strip the barbules from a white CDC feather and tie it in like you would the deer hair on a CDC and Elk or Elk Hair caddis.

[Robert_S 0]

Just when ya think you got it figured I'm going to throw something else for you to think about. More hackle dosen't always mean better. If you look at some of the original catskill patterns they hardly had any hackle on them at all as compared to todays patterns yet still floated. One reason I think that made them work is because they were sparse, the air could pass through each hackle and dry it off much quicker and easyer. A heavly hackled pattern may have trouble and trap some of the water which is why we need to use all these different kinds of floatants. With todays higher barb counts on the hackles I rarely see the need to go more then 4 wraps on each side of the wing. The floatant that I do think works the best is called frogs fanny. Yes it is 5-6 bucks for a little jar of it but once you have the jar you can buy a quart bag of it which probably would break down to over 30 jars full for about 6 bucks. Its fumed silica which can be bought on line through a company that has epoxy products.

[fishaholic69 0]

I read somewhere that a properly tied dry fly with float forever as long as some kind of force doesn't pull it through the surface film.

[utyer 0]

On the stream, there are plenty of forces at work trying to pull your fly under. In fast water, flies that are naturally boyant will pop back to the surface after a dunk or two. I have had deer hair flies float pretty well for up to 30 minutes in rough fast water. Foam bodied flies will float indefiantly, The "force" we really want to pull our flies under is the fish. Once a fish has wrapped his lips around your carefully tied fly, its soon going to start sinking (unless its tied with foam.) After a fish or two its time to tie on another fly, and let the first one dry out. Fluff these (used) flies out by blowing on them, and letting them air dry without being mashed down. I keep a pill bottle in my vest for drying flies. The bottle has small holes drilled in it. When I am done fishing, I will examine used flies for any other damage, and if necessary rince off and steam out any that are still matted down.

[fishaholic69 0]

the post you are talking about was mine. gotta love the forces that pull it under! :headbang: got my 6/0 thread and made another dry today. made this one split tail which looked like a fan tail till it got wet and then looked ok and also I clipped bottom hackle straight. floated good till it got soaked from me tossing it over and over in the sink. other than that I dried it and applied floatant and left it in there after a toss to come back a half hour later with it still floating. turned on the sink and still floated with the turbulance. then I took it out tossed again and still floated. left it for another half hour and still floats. must be better than the 1st one even tho the 1st one is prettier? although after I clipped the hackle of the 1st one with the 210 danville thread and it floated pretty good too. just clipped it cause I read it makes more hackle come in touch with the surface tension which means more buoancy. used the downloaded hackle guage also. worked pretty good!

[utyer 0]

The split tails, or fan tail will certianly help. The hook bend is the heaviest part of the hook. The spread of tail fibers will spread the load out over more water surface, just as cliping the hackle from directly under the fly will spread the load to more water surface.

[smallieFanatic 0]

i've never had a dry fly float ten minutes, not even store-baught ones

 

Usually they last about four to five minutes for me