fly rods

[JSzymczyk 0]

If there wasn't a difference, there wouldn't be any high end rods, that's simple economics.

 

I agree as long as we're comparing apples to apples. Another rule of simple economics is that if something is marketed as high-end, people will buy it. Obviously a $15 fiberglass rod can't be marketed as a $1K miracle. A $250 decent rod CAN be put on a higher shelf than it deserves though, and if guides push it, "famous" people use it, and it becomes seen as a status symbol, people will buy it. You can't deny there is a segment of the fly fishing population that is VERY concerned with status. Just like with motorcycles, firearms, cars, bicycles, liquor, you name it, there comes a point where you are paying more for the sticker than for the product. It's very apparent in the fly fishing world. A fly box with a "Wheatley" sticker on it for $125??? OK I'm drifting off topic. As was previously stated, buy what you want.

 

but if you ever have to reach out past 40 feet when the wind is blowing into your face at 20 mph, you might as well go home

 

IMO 99.99% of us will never HAVE to do that- we fish for fun and enjoyment, and fishing into a 20 mph head wind ain't my in my "fun" book. Someone's skill as a fisherman can't be defined solely by their casting ability. I'll get on the other side of the silly fish, or I'll find a more sheltered area, or I'll go tie some flies.

[shooter 0]

JS i agree a well made rod or in my case a rod made from a high performance blank will out preform the cheaper rods every time.

i live and fish in louisiana,i am what you might call a thicket fisherman. most of my fly fishing is done in timber ie tupelo gum and cypress with buttonwood thickets. i do most of this fishing from a pirogue ,as it sits low in the water affording more head room. this type of fishing as i am sure you know requires roll casting as double haul casting and the like is out of the question.

so it is inevitable that the tip of the rod is going to take a beating form time to time no matter how careful you are,thus the cheaper rods.i will repair four or five front sections in an average year,some times more.

if i were ask for the person just starting out in fly fishing, would be better served getting one of the cheaper combo rigs that cost much less than a ST CROIX or SAGE ex.

having read the replies to this post i agree with every one ,nothing can take the place of a well balanced well made rod and line.

i also agree a good line can be the difference,as i said in my post i use heaver line then the rating on the rod (ie cheap rod) which loads them up and makes roll casting easier.

an eagle claw feather lite series rod loaded with cortland 9 WT/DT will roll cast like a breeze with the proper hand tied tapered leader and hold real tight loops.

i thank you all for the warm welcome it is a pleasure to meet and converse with people that know fly fishing,again a great site .

 

 

gators stink,shooter

 

 

 

 

[shooter 0]

I am a casting instructor and the truth is that the average fly fisherman is a terrible fly caster. What high tech rods do is allow the average caster to reach fish that he normally couldn't get to. Cheap rods will enable you to catch panfish and trout in most situations, but if you ever have to reach out past 40 feet when the wind is blowing into your face at 20 mph, you might as well go home because you're not going to do it with that noodle rod. The average fisherman doesn't have the skill and with an economy rod, he can't rely on technology to compensate for it.

 

I'm not advocating that you blow your savings on a top end Sage. You should fish with what you can afford, but don't for a minute believe that there isn't a noticeable difference in performance. If there wasn't a difference, there wouldn't be any high end rods, that's simple economics.

 

Trout Bumb

you make a valid point,i could not agree more,and of course i am not fishing for finikie brookies either,where

presentation can make the difference .

MADKASEL got it right the line can make the difference, in my case it is the difference.i could not get the performance i do without good line.

it is on sites like this where the person starting out in our sport will get the information he or she needs .

thanks again for the warm welcome guys.

 

gators can't climb trees,shooter

[Esox 0]

For the average or beginning caster there may not be much difference between a bargain bin rod and a rod capable of producing Maserati like line speeds, because the mechanics to utilize this ability just aren't there on the other end of the rod.

[shooter 0]

For the average or beginning caster there may not be much difference between a bargain bin rod and a rod capable of producing Maserati like line speeds, because the mechanics to utilize this ability just aren't there on the other end of the rod.

 

Esox

you are right without the skill sets most beginners are wasting their time and money on high dollar gear.to me it is about the right line for the rod ,as i said in a previous post without the right line it is noway i could load up those cheap rods and push line like i do in tight spots.

most people do not do enough research before they try fishing with rod and fly,and the rod ends up in a closet.

[shooter 0]

I've seen a few comments in this thread with regards to fancy, high priced gear

being a 'turn-off' to our sport - I agree - nothing could be more true.

 

But, the other side of the coin is I know for a fact that there are many, many

closets out there with K-Mart or similar fly fishing rigs that only saw water once.

 

Why ? because they wouldn't cast for beans, most likely with both rod and line to blame.

 

Sure, if you know what you are doing with it, you can get the job done, most likely

with shorter casts on smaller streams.

 

But, the beginner DOESN'T know what he or she is doing !

 

Crap gear is just as much a turn off to our sport as fancy, over priced gear.

scotsman

you make a valid point,the manufactures of these rods should be shot. when you mark a rod as a 5 wt it should not take a 9wt line to make it do what it should.

if it is a 7 ft 9 wt rod it should marked 9wt not five,i agree with your statement though cheap high production junk can and is as bad as over priced gear.

again that is another reason for new comers to the sport to do research and read forums like this one.

 

gators taste good,shooter

 

[flytyingscotsman 0]

scotsman

you make a valid point,the manufactures of these rods should be shot. when you mark a rod as a 5 wt it should not take a 9wt line to make it do what it should.

if it is a 7 ft 9 wt rod it should marked 9wt not five,i agree with your statement though cheap high production junk can and is as bad as over priced gear.

again that is another reason for new comers to the sport to do research and read forums like this one.

 

gators taste good,shooter

 

Shooter - Agreed, the line ratings on some of these rods are flaky at best - unfortunately most times

over or underlining doesn't help much - a wet noodle is a wet noodle.

 

Where it gets really ugly is when you get to 7 weight and beyond - there is almost no way to overcome

the wind resistance when trying to throw bass bugs with these cheap sticks.

 

 

[Esox 0]

When I pull out some of my older (less expensive) rods the first thing I notice that aggravates the devil out of me is that they don't have much in the way of dampening. Even a perfect cast falls well short of what I have become accustomed. I believe this because with little dampening, the rod vibrating causes enough extra friction and tiny loops that form and straighten repeatedly as the line is pulled through the guides that it significantly steals distance.

Of course there is a point of diminishing returns for how much technology costs vs casting efficiency gains.

I for one am willing to pay what it takes to make me happy.

[Bud Guidry 0]

if you fish as often as i do, you'll spend many days casting in 20 mile per hour head winds. if your on a trip of a lifetime, spent big money to travel to some trout shangrila and the winds blowing. do you stay sitting on the bank admiring the scenry? because you won't cast into wind? or maybe not have the equipment that would allow you to ?

 

i've fished alot with cheap rods, i broke 5 - 5 wt. rods this past year on fish. i recently purchased my first high end rod. the difference is remarkable. i'm going out tommorow fishing, they giving winds here in south louisiana, i'm not concerned i'll have a hard time casting because this higher end rod throws line out farther in wind than my cheap rods ever did in calm situations.

 

Bud

[JSzymczyk 0]

if you fish as often as i do, you'll spend many days casting in 20 mile per hour head winds. if your on a trip of a lifetime, spent big money to travel to some trout shangrila and the winds blowing. do you stay sitting on the bank admiring the scenry? because you won't cast into wind? or maybe not have the equipment that would allow you to ?

 

If I ever somehow have the ability to be on a trip of a lifetime or spend "big money" to travel far and wide to fish- a couple of "good" rods will only be a minor part of the expense. If I could afford those kind of expeditions, I could afford expensive rods. I wish I had those kind of worries...

 

Right now an awesome fishing opportunity for me is a couple-acre pond up the road where I know each 12-inch largemouth by name. I'm pretty average I think, only right now I live in an area with nearly zero local fishing, and my service responsibilities prevent me from travelling much at all. Maybe, hopefully, that will change. Again, my point was, for 99+ percent of fly fishermen, an ultra-high end rod is not going to do that much better than a mid-price rod. AND, what we have come to consider a mid-price rod ($200??) is still a LOT of money. If I was fishing in the conditions Shooter describes, I definately wouldn't think it worthwhile or worth the money to use an expensive rod- constantly beating it in the brush. I'm one of those "untrained" casters- probably horrible by some standards. I've cast a few very expensive Sage rods with good line. I didn't see an appreciable difference from my $200 rods. I'm sure there are many really good casters who can make use of the percieved performance edge, but a small percentage overall.

 

And I also look at it this way- the fish really haven't changed too much. Our fathers and grandfathers caught them on fly rods long before anyone ever heard of ultra-high-modulus graphite. (or ultra-slick high-float line chemistries, or fluorocarbon leaders, or laser-sharpened hooks) I'm not saying I prefer to use my Dad's 1950's fiberglass Phillipson over my present day fast action graphite, but they caught fish as well and better than we do. Fishing is more than casting.

 

 

i've fished alot with cheap rods, i broke 5 - 5 wt. rods this past year on fish. i recently purchased my first high end rod. the difference is remarkable. i'm going out tommorow fishing, they giving winds here in south louisiana, i'm not concerned i'll have a hard time casting because this higher end rod throws line out farther in wind than my cheap rods ever did in calm situations.

 

Bud

 

 

[willowhead 0]

Aint no way Jose' i got time to read all of the above.....so i haven't. Besides O's & A's ya know-what-i-mean? So, here's what i know. Aint a rod ever been built make you a better fisherman. PERIOD! Might help you cast better.....to some degree. But if your mechanics is all screwed up and your timming suckx.....you in a world of trouble no matter what rod you use. I've been through bout 60/70 rods so far.........but i haven't bought a new rod in prolly 10 years cept for a few real small Boo rods for rock-hoppin' the small tribs with. 5 and 6 footers. And i swaped stuff for a couple of those. I've given away over two dozen rods now, that i know i'll never use anymore. Prolly have over 40 left and only use a dozen or so. There's an old saying amoung percussionist, and those who "know", ("Listen"). Goes like this. "The cymbal don't make the drummer.......the durmmer makes the cymbal." Was taught to ALL of us, by a MASTER Percussionist and Prophet. Art Blakey. Same thing goes for rods. A rod aint nothin' but a tool. Sure some are better than others........but YOU gotta learn "how" and "why" to use it.......so the "when" becomes the most it can be. mark..... btw, i also gave away my old 6 and a half ft. 5 wt. Eagle Claw glass rod i used to use in Central Park, Manhattan all the time. LOVED that rod. Cost me $15......... :hyst:

[shooter 0]

Aint no way Jose' i got time to read all of the above.....so i haven't. Besides O's & A's ya know-what-i-mean? So, here's what i know. Aint a rod ever been built make you a better fisherman. PERIOD! Might help you cast better.....to some degree. But if your mechanics is all screwed up and your timming suckx.....you in a world of trouble no matter what rod you use. I've been through bout 60/70 rods so far.........but i haven't bought a new rod in prolly 10 years cept for a few real small Boo rods for rock-hoppin' the small tribs with. 5 and 6 footers. And i swaped stuff for a couple of those. I've given away over two dozen rods now, that i know i'll never use anymore. Prolly have over 40 left and only use a dozen or so. There's an old saying amoung percussionist, and those who "know", ("Listen"). Goes like this. "The cymbal don't make the drummer.......the durmmer makes the cymbal." Was taught to ALL of us, by a MASTER Percussionist and Prophet. Art Blakey. Same thing goes for rods. A rod aint nothin' but a tool. Sure some are better than others........but YOU gotta learn "how" and "why" to use it.......so the "when" becomes the most it can be. mark..... btw, i also gave away my old 6 and a half ft. 5 wt. Eagle Claw glass rod i used to use in Central Park, Manhattan all the time. LOVED that rod. Cost me $15......... :hyst:

 

 

willowhead

i agree with every word of your post well said.

shooter

 

gators luv chicken

[shooter 0]

if you fish as often as i do, you'll spend many days casting in 20 mile per hour head winds. if your on a trip of a lifetime, spent big money to travel to some trout shangrila and the winds blowing. do you stay sitting on the bank admiring the scenry? because you won't cast into wind? or maybe not have the equipment that would allow you to ?

 

i've fished alot with cheap rods, i broke 5 - 5 wt. rods this past year on fish. i recently purchased my first high end rod. the difference is remarkable. i'm going out tommorow fishing, they giving winds here in south louisiana, i'm not concerned i'll have a hard time casting because this higher end rod throws line out farther in wind than my cheap rods ever did in calm situations.

 

Bud

 

 

hi bud

i too am from louisiana south central chicot area.i fish chicot lake most of the time,my rods range between 61/2 to 7 ft with 9 to 10 wt dt f line it is rare that i cast more thean 40 ft. i find that i can generate very high line speeds roll casting with these heavy lines. i use three to four foot hand tied leaders on these rigs ,i fish in the timber most of the time ,low roll casting is the norm.

i do sometimes fish open water with 8 and 9 foot rods with shooting tapers these are my more costly rods

and yes i agree the better rods show their stuff there .

 

[sherrib 0]

I started out with the Shakespear combo from Walmart, then bought a L.L.Bean model off of Ebay, I now have a Sage 4 weight but I traded for it. I didn't have to give anywhere near full price for it. I guess the point I am trying to make is this. My more expensive rods are easier to cast but if you shop around you don't have to give full price for them either. I did get stung buying an Orvis rod off of Ebay though the rod had been repaired so is shorter than original so you do have to be careful

[shooter 0]

I started out with the Shakespear combo from Walmart, then bought a L.L.Bean model off of Ebay, I now have a Sage 4 weight but I traded for it. I didn't have to give anywhere near full price for it. I guess the point I am trying to make is this. My more expensive rods are easier to cast but if you shop around you don't have to give full price for them either. I did get stung buying an Orvis rod off of Ebay though the rod had been repaired so is shorter than original so you do have to be careful

sherrib

i could not agree more a good rod will cast better than a cheap one almost every time. although i use cheap rods rods for most of my fishing ,i do use good line on those rods. i also up the line weight so as to load the rods more and generate more line speed ,than i could with the stated weight on the rods.

it is the heavy line that makes those cheap rods work for me.i guess having fished with fly rods for fifty years does not hurt my success either.

shooter

 

 

gators eat snakes