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netabrookie

just a stupid copy right question

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Actually ...

 

Nobody is "stealing" anything until they use it for financial gain or to represent it as theirs.

 

You can photocopy and entire book and that is not copyright infringement. It is only a problem when you sell the pages, or try to pass them off as your own.

 

This is the same with images. If you are truly worried about someone stealing the images on your website then watermark them. This is the only true way to ensure that they are not being used in a manner that you do not want.

 

Wholly inaccurate.

 

Watermarks are easily removed. Photocopying a book you don't already own IS copyright infringement. It doesn't matter WHAT you intend to do with the copy. The only way it would not be is if you already OWNED the book and made a copy for your own archive in case your original were destroyed. Same goes for music, movies, etc.- ask any student who wasn't "stealing" music off Napster to listen to in his or her own dorm room what happens when the copyright owner dislikes what you've done.

 

I agree with Day5. ASK before you take. Site owners put valuable time and money into building their sites.

 

 

Netabrookie: It's not necesarily that they want to protect the pattern itself, but THEIR work in creating THAT particular interpretatation of the pattern (unless it's an original design, I suppose, they could wish to protect the pattern as well.)

 

 

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Hello TxEngr,

 

While it is technically against the law to copy an entire book ... good luck finding anyone that would prosecute if there was no financial gain, plagiarism, etc. and the copy was for personal use only.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that it is NOT okay to steal someone's work. It is not okay to use it in a manner for which it was unintended.

 

If you publish a picture on the internet you do so such that people can view it (its intended use is to be looked at). In this case a photo of a fly. Why is it bad if someone prints out a copy of that picture such that they can use it as reference (to be looked at)?

 

If they were posting it on another website, selling the pictures, passing it off as their own work, or using it maliciously then I can see where you are coming from.

 

As I stated above ... if you do not want photos misused put a watermark on them. You could also limit the size or resolution. You could password protect the high res versions.

 

Sean.

 

 

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PC -

 

I don't think we're that far apart here. I still disagree with the copying of the book (or video, song, photograph) "if it's only for personal use and for no financial gain". You have a financial gain in that you didn't spend the money on the actual book. I'm assuming that the copying of the book took place on someone elses copy machine and cost since it would be cheaper to buy the book than to copy it at $.10 per page. If you were to scan it, you still incur the savings of not buying the book - you had a financial gain.

 

A good example of preventing copying of pictures is in the photography section of this site. Many of the users there have web pages where the display some remarkable images. Most have copyright marks on the photos meaning they don't want someone else using them and most prevent copying the images from their web page. This is their work and they want to control what happens to it. Since you cannot control what happens to an image if you make it open to the world, then you have to lock it down - it's you're only choice.

 

I'm with Day5 on this one - ask. You'll probably be sent the image for your use once it's known.

 

The internet has proven quite the test to the copyright laws. It has international implications as well since not all countries follow our copyright laws nor respect them. However, copyright is there for a reason, and should out of good conscience be respected. It's just the right thing to do.

 

TxEngr

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My point is if I put a fence around my rose bush please do not jump the fence and take one. But if you ask I will probably give you a plant for you to grow behind your own fence.

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Like I said before fellows, I am sorry to have caused a debate over a subject that I brought up. If theres one thing that I hate in this life, its to argue among friends. Even more so if I caused the arguement. I have no bad feeling, and I understand why your pictures are protected. I don't really like anyone trying to copy one of my paintings, so I guess its about the same thing.

 

Take Care, and lets change the subject to fishing or something :D

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Net,

 

Don't feel like you started a fight. You asked a very reasonable question that I think you got some interesting discussion going on. I don't think this was ever really an argument so much as lively discussion. I'd gladly go fishing with ProudCDN or any of the other posters - it's not personal.

 

So on to something less controversial - which is better - the Wooly Bugger or Wooly Worm?...;)

 

TxEngr

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I hate to be the one to reopen a can of worms--especially on a fly fishing site, but here goes. I am an artist. I put time and effort into my work. As the creator of a piece of art-whether it be an image of that art or a photograph of a fly. It entitles the artist, photographer, composer, etc a number of rights. For example, an artist has the rite to the use of the image both for private use and public use. The artist also has a right to reproduce this image. It doesn't really make a difference if it is for gain or not. The artist has a right to display the work, for example, in a show or museum. The artist or originator can choose to sell any of these individual rights or total copyright. Copy rights do not only deal with copying, they deal with usage.

 

Now if someone downloads one of my images from my website and uses it, say, on their web site, even though the website is not selling it or anything else, that is copyright infringement. Why, because I OWN, CREATED, MADE, put together that particular image, design, painting, composition, whatever. It is legally MINE-my property. Therefore, certain usage without my permission is illegal. It is no different than someone taking your sculpture from your back yard to put in theirs because they want to look at it.

 

Think about it. How would you like it if you found your photo, artwork, poem, story, music etc. in someone else's "back yard" without your knowledge or permission.

 

Mark

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I kind of prefer the wooly bugger, but I gave up drinking about 20 years ago, but I could sure use a double shot of Wild Turkey right about now. And as far as that can of worms is concerned, let anyone on this, or any other site, that has not ever saved, or tried to save, a photo or image be the one to cast the first stone.

Thanks for the opinions and for the support. Now......Can we please weld the lid on this thing

 

Take Care,

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Net,

 

Don't feel like you started a fight. You asked a very reasonable question that I think you got some interesting discussion going on. I don't think this was ever really an argument so much as lively discussion. I'd gladly go fishing with ProudCDN or any of the other posters - it's not personal.

 

So on to something less controversial - which is better - the Wooly Bugger or Wooly Worm?...;)

 

TxEngr

 

Re-opening using a plasma cutter: :hyst:

 

Actually, I was just going to agree with TXEngr about discussion and debate vs argument. I never felt this was an argument, and I'd fish with any of ya, except maybe Day5... :lol:

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I have discussed the copyrights in length as they pertain to fly patterns with a patent attorney.....A copyright acts in different ways for different things....as it pertains to a fly....it merely protects the name....

Example....Dave whitlocks "nearnuff sculpin" ...anyone can tie that fly....they just can't sell it or represent it as a "near nuff sculpin"...you would have to call it something else. It would take a patent to protect the actual pattern....and according to the attorney...that would cost more than it would be worth...and is still flimsey at best. Copyrights on songs, pictures and things of an "intellectual matter" are a different story.....though ,and this is still greatly at debate in courts, it is my personal belief that things posted on the interenet should be to some extent considered public domain. My personal feeling is that if I post a photo, pattern ,or idea on the internet....I did so because I wanted to share it.....not keep everyone's hands off of it....and thus would not have any ill feelings towards anyone using it or downloading the image for thier personal use. Now with that said....I also have to agree with Day5's theory of the "fence" ....if he puts a "fence " around his photos....then that fence should be respected...much the same as a real fence should be.

 

Funny side note.... I have a 10 acre pond on my farm....one day while out fishing in my boat near the dam....which is formed by a dirt road at one end of the pond....a truck pulled up with a huge tank and a pump.....the truck stopped not 40 ft or so from me...and three guys got out and proceeded to throw hoses into the pond in an attempt to pump water out.....I waited a bit...then moved closer to the guy and asked him..."just WTF do you think you're doing?" he said..."oh I thought this was a public lake? " I asked him..."did you not see the fence?...did you not see my house over there? did you not look straight at me when you got out?....why did you just not ask?"....he gave me a dumb look...and said " I did'nt think I needed to?" to which I replied....."how would you feel if you had a peach tree in your back yard....and one evening I pulled up in your driveway...got out ...walked into your back yard and started picking your peaches?" he said " I would'nt be too happy" ....I replied "you're picking my peaches"

 

Now....truthfully more water ran out of the pond in an hour than he probably could have pumped out....but the idea was that he did'nt ask.......

So I'm saying look at both sides of this....If someone has a copyright...respect it....if your gonna post something on the internet....expect people to want to "borrow it" for thier own personal use. 2 sides to everything :D

 

I used to hate wooly buggers...but in one afternoon became a fan! :yahoo: :yahoo:

 

I rarely drink...but when I do....it must be from a bottle :drunk:

 

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You have a very good way with words overbrook. I still feel bad about a few things that came off of my key board, but I cant retract what I already sent out. I really hoped this subject would be dropped or changed, but I am glad that you stated what you did. Now if somebody will just take that plasma cutter away from PK, I would like to use up a couple of rolls of wire and really weld this lid on :D

 

All of you Take Care, and it would be my honor to fish with any or all of you also

 

 

....and, why did you have to use peaches as an example? It's 3:45 in the morning here and I can't sleep and now you got me wanting a peach... :)

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It seems to me that the "free" internet is pretty much open territory- photos aren't even really photos, they're just bits and bytes that a program displays as something we call a photo... It would have taken all of 32 seconds to find the how-to about looking for the source, if it wasn't posted here. I don't know how there can be an expectation of keeping things compartmentalized and copy protected if they are just out there floating around.

 

Like they always say, if it's on the internet, it's out there forever. The only way to prevent people from saving your photos or words or whatever, is to not put them on the net or e-mail them. It might not be right, it might not be moral, it might not even be legal, but that's the way it is.

 

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To steal (sorry copy) those photos just get up the page and have microsoft word in the same window ie. side by side. Then just highlight the chosen item and while holding down the left click button drag it on to the word file and then you can play with it all you want.

All criticism welcome,

Jason.

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