Strung Rooster or Rooster saddle/Neck/cape?

[utyer 0]

I am not familiar with Wapsi necks. I would examine the stiffness, amount of web, and the size of the individual feathers first. Then if they are in colors you think you would used, pick them up. If they are orange and purple, or some other funky color, you may never use them for anything, in which case they are not much of a buy.

 

Remember this from a guy who already has over 70 necks and saddles, and keeps on buying more.

[day5 0]

Only 70! Slacker! What do you need more shelving?

[flykid 0]

For a dry fly neck, about the cheapest you'll find is $25. I have only two necks cause I don't tie tons of trout flies, one grizzly and one brown. They are Keough tyer's grade and are the $25 option. They work well for as much as I use them. Probably a good option for you since you're a kid like me and money is often limited.

[peregrines 0]

Charlie-

 

One of the toughest thing beginning tyers have to do is figure out what materials to use with what patterns. In the meantime, the best advice would be to buy your stuff in a good local flyshop, or if you do the online thing, get stuff from places that specialize in fly fishing with an 800 number. Tell the folks what you’re tying, what you have already to see if that might work, and have them help you pick out the right stuff for what you need.

 

Stick to a few patterns at a time, buying just the stuff you need for them. The temptation is to go out and get one (or two) of everything. You’d be much better concentrating on one or two patterns at a time and knocking off a bunch of them. You’ll get better much faster at tying if you try and make each one a bit better than the last one.

 

You should also look into a beginners fly tying class—fly shops, groups like local chapters of Trout Unlimited often run them during the winter.

 

Just some info you might find helpful:

 

Neck and cape are generally used to describe the same thing.

 

Soft webby hackles vs stiff dry fly hackles- when you bend a feather stem you’ll see barbs that are stiff and point out straight (good dry fly hackle from specially bred birds (examples are Whiting Rooster capes or saddles with Red or Green Labels, The Green Label is Whiting’s Hebert Miner line) or barbs that clump together (web) and curve with the bend that are used in wet flies (hens and game birds like partridge, strung hackle, and Whiting American Rooster capes and saddles (Blue Label),

 

Dry Fly Saddles vs Capes Capes usually have a wider range of sizes (barb length) for different hook sizes usually 12-18 in the Bronze, Pro or Grade 3 categories, which is what I would start with instead of more expensive higher grades (longer feathers and run into smaller sizes in the 20’s). Saddles typically have longer feathers so you can get several flies from the same feather, but they typically are strongest in 2 sizes. Most Whitings for example have mostly 14-16 with some 12’s and 18’s. Other brands (and individual saddles) may be stronger in 12-14 or 10-12. They are easy to work with and are a good deal if you tie in a limited size range.

 

Here’s a link to Mike Hogue’s site. He has excellent articles that might help explain some of the differences (Understanding Feathers and Hackle and Understanding Soft Hackle Feathers) http://www.mwflytying.com/materials/materials.html

 

Good info on Hen feathers: http://globalflyfisher.com/staff/petti/garage/hen/

 

1. Steelhead flies- dyed strung saddle (6 bucks), or on the skin stuff like Whiting Blue Label “American” line hen cape (18 bucks), rooster cape (25 bucks) or saddle (13 bucks)

2. Small trout flies- for dry flies get a Pro, Bronze or Grade 3 Cape for a wide range of sizes flies down to 18 with some individual capes going to smaller sizes, For really smaller stuff, add a Whiting Bronze Midge ¼ Saddle (has sizes 18 and smaller and runs about 30 bucks) or Whiting 100’s in size 20 or 22 for about 15 bucks. But if you're new to tying start with size 12-16 first.

3. Artistic Salmon flies- very specialized, I’d save these for later

4. Larger Trout Flies- Dries cape or saddle. If you’re tying both large and small get a cape.

5. Any other situations- strung saddles for streamer wings and tails, mallard flank feathers for wings on dries, partridge for beards and tails on nymphs and collars on soft hackle wet flies, pheasant tail feathers for tail and body of Pheasant Tail Nymph.

 

If you’re just starting out and on a budget, and as you move on to different patterns, I would think about buying:

 

Strung saddle hackle black- for woolly buggers (an easy fly to tie and catches all kinds of stuff), and collars on steelhead flies like Green Butt Skunk. You can add bright color to steelhead flies by using different body material like bright colored yarn from around the house or a craft store (cheap), or packs of brightly colored marabou for wings on steelhead flies and tails on buggers.

 

A pack of loose partridge feathers for beards and tails on nymphs, and collars on wet flies like soft hackles. A pack will run about 3 bucks. It'll have less of a distribution of sizes than a full skin (which runs 25 or so), but is good to start with.

 

Good quality, but fairly inexpensive dry fly capes for about 30 bucks. I don’t have any experience with Keough, For a very good value and quality, I’d go with a Hebert Miner Pro Grade (owned by Whiting but a different genetic line from their Red Label products. The Hebert Miner line has a Green Label.), An alternative would be buying Whiting Bronze Grade ½ capes. You could also buy direct from a smaller grower, and speak to them directly. They’ll pick out what you need for whatever you’d like to tie. Grade 3 Conranch www.conranch.com or a Grade 3 Cape from Collins Hackle which includes a free saddle. Charlie Collins doesn’t have a web site but you can reach him at 607 734-1765. These all go for around 30 bucks, and will tie sizes from 12-18 at least. The owners provide a very good product, exceptional customer service and are a pleasure to deal with. By buying directly from them you are cutting out the middleman, so what you get for the dollar is a bargain. I would start with Grizzly and Brown, then add a medium dun and a cream or light ginger. Down the road, if you needed to tie really small stuff you could get a Whiting 100 pack in size 20 or 22 for about 15 bucks, but there will more than likely be some 20’s on these necks. You can also use some of the larger softer feathers at the base of these necks for buggers and wet fly collars.(both the HM Pro and Collins lines of birds are very strong in natural duns, gingers and unusual fishy shades like rusty dun in both beautiful solid and barring capes and saddles as well as dyed colors like Grizzly dyed Olive for green drake patterns). (I just ordered eight #3 Capes plus saddles from Collins for the first time and was so happy with them when they arrived i ordered four more.)

 

Hope this helps.

 

peregrines

 

 

[Charlie Franklin 0]

Charlie-

 

One of the toughest thing beginning tyers have to do is figure out what materials to use with what patterns. In the meantime, the best advice would be to buy your stuff in a good local flyshop, or if you do the online thing, get stuff from places that specialize in fly fishing with an 800 number. Tell the folks what you’re tying, what you have already to see if that might work, and have them help you pick out the right stuff for what you need.

 

Stick to a few patterns at a time, buying just the stuff you need for them. The temptation is to go out and get one (or two) of everything. You’d be much better concentrating on one or two patterns at a time and knocking off a bunch of them. You’ll get better much faster at tying if you try and make each one a bit better than the last one.

 

You should also look into a beginners fly tying class—fly shops, groups like local chapters of Trout Unlimited often run them during the winter.

 

Just some info you might find helpful:

 

Neck and cape are generally used to describe the same thing.

 

Soft webby hackles vs stiff dry fly hackles- when you bend a feather stem you’ll see barbs that are stiff and point out straight (good dry fly hackle from specially bred birds (examples are Whiting Rooster capes or saddles with Red or Green Labels, The Green Label is Whiting’s Hebert Miner line) or barbs that clump together (web) and curve with the bend that are used in wet flies (hens and game birds like partridge, strung hackle, and Whiting American Rooster capes and saddles (Blue Label),

 

Dry Fly Saddles vs Capes Capes usually have a wider range of sizes (barb length) for different hook sizes usually 12-18 in the Bronze, Pro or Grade 3 categories, which is what I would start with instead of more expensive higher grades (longer feathers and run into smaller sizes in the 20’s). Saddles typically have longer feathers so you can get several flies from the same feather, but they typically are strongest in 2 sizes. Most Whitings for example have mostly 14-16 with some 12’s and 18’s. Other brands (and individual saddles) may be stronger in 12-14 or 10-12. They are easy to work with and are a good deal if you tie in a limited size range.

 

Here’s a link to Mike Hogue’s site. He has excellent articles that might help explain some of the differences (Understanding Feathers and Hackle and Understanding Soft Hackle Feathers) http://www.mwflytying.com/materials/materials.html

 

Good info on Hen feathers: http://globalflyfisher.com/staff/petti/garage/hen/

 

1. Steelhead flies- dyed strung saddle (6 bucks), or on the skin stuff like Whiting Blue Label “American” line hen cape (18 bucks), rooster cape (25 bucks) or saddle (13 bucks)

2. Small trout flies- for dry flies get a Pro, Bronze or Grade 3 Cape for a wide range of sizes flies down to 18 with some individual capes going to smaller sizes, For really smaller stuff, add a Whiting Bronze Midge ¼ Saddle (has sizes 18 and smaller and runs about 30 bucks) or Whiting 100’s in size 20 or 22 for about 15 bucks. But if you're new to tying start with size 12-16 first.

3. Artistic Salmon flies- very specialized, I’d save these for later

4. Larger Trout Flies- Dries cape or saddle. If you’re tying both large and small get a cape.

5. Any other situations- strung saddles for streamer wings and tails, mallard flank feathers for wings on dries, partridge for beards and tails on nymphs and collars on soft hackle wet flies, pheasant tail feathers for tail and body of Pheasant Tail Nymph.

 

If you’re just starting out and on a budget, and as you move on to different patterns, I would think about buying:

 

Strung saddle hackle black- for woolly buggers (an easy fly to tie and catches all kinds of stuff), and collars on steelhead flies like Green Butt Skunk. You can add bright color to steelhead flies by using different body material like bright colored yarn from around the house or a craft store (cheap), or packs of brightly colored marabou for wings on steelhead flies and tails on buggers.

 

A pack of loose partridge feathers for beards and tails on nymphs, and collars on wet flies like soft hackles. A pack will run about 3 bucks. It'll have less of a distribution of sizes than a full skin (which runs 25 or so), but is good to start with.

 

Good quality, but fairly inexpensive dry fly capes for about 30 bucks. I don’t have any experience with Keough, For a very good value and quality, I’d go with a Hebert Miner Pro Grade (owned by Whiting but a different genetic line from their Red Label products. The Hebert Miner line has a Green Label.), An alternative would be buying Whiting Bronze Grade ½ capes. You could also buy direct from a smaller grower, and speak to them directly. They’ll pick out what you need for whatever you’d like to tie. Grade 3 Conranch www.conranch.com or a Grade 3 Cape from Collins Hackle which includes a free saddle. Charlie Collins doesn’t have a web site but you can reach him at 607 734-1765. These all go for around 30 bucks, and will tie sizes from 12-18 at least. The owners provide a very good product, exceptional customer service and are a pleasure to deal with. By buying directly from them you are cutting out the middleman, so what you get for the dollar is a bargain. I would start with Grizzly and Brown, then add a medium dun and a cream or light ginger. Down the road, if you needed to tie really small stuff you could get a Whiting 100 pack in size 20 or 22 for about 15 bucks, but there will more than likely be some 20’s on these necks. You can also use some of the larger softer feathers at the base of these necks for buggers and wet fly collars.(both the HM Pro and Collins lines of birds are very strong in natural duns, gingers and unusual fishy shades like rusty dun in both beautiful solid and barring capes and saddles as well as dyed colors like Grizzly dyed Olive for green drake patterns). (I just ordered eight #3 Capes plus saddles from Collins for the first time and was so happy with them when they arrived i ordered four more.)

 

Hope this helps.

 

peregrines

 

 

Wow thats a lot of info.

I have been tying for 2 and a half years now and work with hackle alot.

you said something about strung hackle. but the strung hackle is always way to big. but I think I mentioned before that I found wapsi dyed rooster necks do you know anything about this?

Thanks for all your help.

Charlie

 

[Hellgrammite 0]

A while ago (well over a year ago) I did a rather OCD inspired "feather census" of Keough "Tyers Grade" and "No 2" grade rooster necks. Both were purchased from a local Gander Mountain, and my finding was that they had a great array of feather sizes on them, all the way from 10-12 down to 20-22 and even some 24s (the larger feathers tended to be webbier, but thats fine, as I rarely tie anything larger than 14).

 

That being said, one of these in a medium dun, one in a medium brown, and one in grizzly will enable you to tie a LOT of flies, for about 20-25 bucks a neck (as in 200-300 flies per neck). Not a bad investment. The whiting 100s packs are great too, and I am gravitating towards them for most of my flies, simply out of laziness and convenience.

 

For starters, I would look at these options, in the 3 most commonly needed colors (med dun, brown, and grizzly). Can tie a lot of types and wont break most bank accounts. Even if you can only get 1 pack of the whiting 100s, tying up 100 dries, even if they are all the same size, will do amazing things for your tying skills! Set the first one aside, then compare it to number 100, for all the proof you will ever need.

 

Tim

 

 

[lewy271 0]

Instore at Cabelas they had Whiting 100 packs marked at 4.99 last weekend in Chicago here, they have only three sizes and each size was different color. But for 4.99 I picked up two of each. That was actually a great buy look for them.

[flyfshn76 0]

I use the keough necks and love them, not only for the price but they are really nice. I have used several different manf. and although whiting makes the best imo the price is too steep for me. The fish don't seem to mind the drys so thats good enough for me.