Southern Cicada

[Brian Brown75 0]

I agree with will if they enhanced the photo, its no big deal its their loss because they tried to make it something its not (im not directing thsi at anyone) just sayin

[Dark Hopper 0]

Hello my friends,

 

I find the flies presented on this forum magnificent… I am admiring of your creativity and techniques used … :eek:

 

I consider the realistic fly tying as " an Art " without rule or each expresses its creativity!

 

And even, if most of these flies will never catch fishes,

I think that it is maybe useful to keep the hook because it gives a real identity to this art and differentiate it from the classic model making.

 

However, I respect and understand the point of view of Andrés … Because I think also these various opinions give wealth to this passion

 

[day5 0]

Fly = hand made lure made on a hook. Can be cast with a fly rod. Other than that screw traditions.

[Andrés T 0]

Hello guys,

Thank you for just expressing your opinions with respect to others.

 

When I found Realistic Fly Tyer, Dale Beamish web site, I discovered realistic fly tying world. I spent some moths studding what other people did. Many of them posted free SbS, so you can learn from them. Since the beginning I wanted to tie those flies, but I also keep in my mind the idea of giving them something new.

After some months I started working a material I had never seen before and so I tied my first hopper.

One idea was in my mind, what about tying a fly out off a hook? The idea was based on the thought that a trout, in still waters, sees the hook coming out from the body. I also thought about those carp fisherman and their boiles (not sure about the spelling).

So I tied my first realistic fly on piano wire and no hook in it. Everybody asked about the hook and I explained my idea.

Some days later, Steve thornton published his second book: “listen to the river, vol.2”. He had found a way to use a fly without hook inside to be fished – the (hair rig) stonefly nymph. I have not found the way yet.

Ulf Hagström also contacted me to tell that he had used the same materials I had used. He has even written an article about it. (some times we can think that we are pioneers in something, to discover later that somebody else did it before LOL).

The crab, the shrimp, and the fish were tied without hook just because they were part of a diorama at Finisterre fishing market. It tries to show our coast to tourists, and they asked me to “do” those “models” without a hook inside. I tie them not on a hook but on piano wire using fly tying techniques.

The octopus is a present for one of my daughters, Sofía. She asked me to tie a fly for her but with no hook inside. I have seen David Martin´s octopus, and I decided to tie it with my own technique. It would be very easy to tie it on a hook, using a tentacle for it but my daughter´s preference was another. I had seen David´s flies and his octopus and lionfish are two pieces of art so I could not avoid the temptation of tying my own version.

The debate about what it is a fly or not, is still open to me. I think Steve´s stonefly nymph is a fly.

As I told before, many fly tiers argue that a fly must be tied on a hook, but I still think that the rule is that everything must be tied with thread. This is the technique that establish the difference between fly tying and moulding, modelling, craving, gluing, etc..

 

The debate is open, and I am just giving my opinion with all my respect to others.

 

Andrés T.

 

[Fred H. 0]

The truth is that a lot of early tyers fought very hard to have realistic tying considered a

form of fly tying. Just like Classic and salmon fly tying. Although Salmon flies can be very beautiful and one might want to frame them instead of fish them.They are flies.

No one is saying you can't make models.No one is saying you can't use epoxy or glue. Just don't try to tell us they are a tied fly. Many new tyers look at these models and think they are impossible to create by fly tying and get discouraged.

This is not a new debate and the administrator had asked us to stop. But I could not in good

consious let your words on this topic be the last ones anyone reads. Because your opinion

goes against the very definition of a fly. Your argument has no basis in fact. If your opinion is that a German Shepard is a breed of cat , (and everyone is allowed their own opinion)

it still dosen't make it a cat.You mentioned some very well known tyers in your first post and stated that they would tell you that in order to be a fly it must be tied to a hook.They

are right ,you are wrong. No opinions nessecary. A fly is a fly a model is a model.

 

 

Let this be the last we here of this. To Will ,and eveyone else . I'm sorry this took place.

But who digitally removes a hook to post it on a fly tying forum????

Regards , Fred

[terrome 0]

To Fred

Some time ago Paul Whillock publish in this forum a mayfly without hook and no one asked him a step by step, much less in bad way, and Whillock, like I did not agree, it costs a lot to develop techniques and if you think that using the arrogance I will tell you, I think that you are very wrong.

 

You must to leave aside your intolerance, the Holy Inquisition and Torquemada has gone. As you can see in another forums, big fly tyers did not give the slightest importance to what you said.

The Cicada is tied up on a conventional hook and the materials tied over the same (legs, wings, eyes, body, etc.), the outside, where you to catch your eye is made with epoxy and acrylic paint respecting the natural form, but to reach this accuracy, it requires skills that not everybody possess and try to replace them with resentment does not lead to anything good.

The new realistic atadores should have true masters to guide them, teachers who can teach and have a minimum talent to show.

 

To Mr Martin

 

In order To compete in the MSO ,goes beyond the recipe (pattern) you must to send the fly and what you're suggesting is that juries are incompetent that they do not realize if the fly that they are seeing is mold or tied, this is undermining the most prestigious tournament. I like if you can give us the names of the winners, that in your opinion, they mold and not tied their flies. fly tyers as large as Testanier, Teyssie, Stanceva, Gajardoni, Logan,etc, compete or have competed.

 

This is a good indicator of the importance of this tournament that you seem to want defame. How I told to Fred the Cicada was tied in the conventional manner and form exterior is made by hand with epoxy. The modern tied advances, sorry if this is not the path that you believe, some time ago Bob Mead also was criticized by people believed to have the absolute truth, if you believe me or not, I do not care, in the antiquity people believed that the earth was flat, things change for better. Greetings. Adrian

 

[Fred H. 0]

To Fred

Some time ago Paul Whillock publish in this forum a mayfly without hook and no one asked him a step by step, much less in bad way, and Whillock, like I did not agree, it costs a lot to develop techniques and if you think that using the arrogance I will tell you, I think that you are very wrong.

 

You must to leave aside your intolerance, the Holy Inquisition and Torquemada has gone. As you can see in another forums, big fly tyers did not give the slightest importance to what you said.

The Cicada is tied up on a conventional hook and the materials tied over the same (legs, wings, eyes, body, etc.), the outside, where you to catch your eye is made with epoxy and acrylic paint respecting the natural form, but to reach this accuracy, it requires skills that not everybody possess and try to replace them with resentment does not lead to anything good.

The new realistic atadores should have true masters to guide them, teachers who can teach and have a minimum talent to show.

 

To Mr Martin

 

In order To compete in the MSO ,goes beyond the recipe (pattern) you must to send the fly and what you're suggesting is that juries are incompetent that they do not realize if the fly that they are seeing is mold or tied, this is undermining the most prestigious tournament. I like if you can give us the names of the winners, that in your opinion, they mold and not tied their flies. fly tyers as large as Testanier, Teyssie, Stanceva, Gajardoni, Logan,etc, compete or have competed.

 

This is a good indicator of the importance of this tournament that you seem to want defame. How I told to Fred the Cicada was tied in the conventional manner and form exterior is made by hand with epoxy. The modern tied advances, sorry if this is not the path that you believe, some time ago Bob Mead also was criticized by people believed to have the absolute truth, if you believe me or not, I do not care, in the antiquity people believed that the earth was flat, things change for better. Greetings. Adrian

You must think that we Americans are slow witted. That you shoved a hook into the butt of that model will keep me laughing for weeks. :hyst: :hyst: :hyst:

[j. michael 0]

I am sorry, but I have got to go with Fred. The hook eye isn't even exposed. When you posted the recipe I thought for a while that it had some chances of being a fly. But these pictures pretty much affirm the fact that it is a model because you wouldn't tie things down past and around the hook eye.

[terrome 0]

not only talented, too smart, you have many virtues.

Dian Fossey would have been proud of you.Cheers Freddie Keep tying

[Guest]

I asked nicely. There is no right or wrong answer in this discussion and I really find it hard to believe that grown men are arguing over this especially after I asked for it to stop. I know it is cold outside and nobody has anything better to do but cut me some slack...please.