The color red...?

[navigator37 0]

In all my years fly fishing, I have never questioned the use of red materials in tying flies.

Some of it's use comes from the fact that there is red, of course in the insect life I was imitating.

On attractor flies, I used it because I thought red would look flashy and catch the attention of

a pike or trout.

However, recently, I have come across many studies and articles involving the emphasis that

the color red, when submerged, is the first color to disappear to the fish's vision.

According to the color spectrum, ( red, orange, yellow, green, blue and violet) red is the least visible color

to the fish when it submerges ten feet or deeper.

Many fishing line companies rave about their invisible red fishing lines now.

Would it make sense then, to tie with red materials for flies fished deep?

It just doesn't make sense.

Trout routinely scour the bottom of lakes for midge larvae which are as red as can be.

I've found tons of bright red larvae in a trout's stomach.

Are these studies on a trout's visible abilities flawed?

I will keep tying with red, I suppose, but are the fish actually seeing it, or are they

focusing in on another color on the fly while the red remains invisible to them?

I hope this isn't a pointless topic, but I wanted to see what everyones take is on this.

Have you ever been unsuccessful with a fly until you tied red material on it?

How important is red?

[iso18 0]

I believe what i have always heard is that red appeals to a fishes predatory intincts.Blood red,dont know if they think its blood,so its alive and bleeding or just because.

Good question.I wouldn't mind hearing other thoguhts on this also.I know they make blood red hooks,for what reason............?Maybe as i mentioned before dunno

shane

[Twofingerz 0]

thats one of those questions that has perplexed me as well. make red line because it is invisible to fish. and yet at the same time red hooks are claimed to imitate blood flowing out of a fish. i dont use red line or red hooks. figure one of them is just using a marketing scam to hook fisherman. and until something really definitive comes out i'll stick with whats working for me now. that includes the use of red in my flies.

 

p.s. somewhere in my stack of mags i am pretty sure there is an article authored by Dr. Hal Schramm on this topic. but its almost bedtime so i will look for it at another time.

[longears 0]

All I know is that The Liquid Lace Ultimate Chironomid is tyed using an Opaque Red Pen and it out catches fish 5:1 over black or brown Chironomids. Same with bloodworm patterns fished over 25' Red , maroon, green and varigated red out fish the brown worm patterns. But, then again black marabou leeches catch their share of fish too. I guess whatever works..... I use a lot of red variations though and catch plenty of fish with them.

[tidewaterfly 0]

I don't know what the fish actually see, and neither does anyone else. Studies always make assumptions, and they have merit, but I feel it boils down to one simple thing, confidence. If you have confidence in using red in your flies, lines, hooks or whatever, or not, then go with it.

 

I use it on some streamer patterns for throats or gills, because I like the look it gives. I use red hooks, again because I like it. I even tie a few red flies & I use lures that are primarily red.

 

In shallow water, where I do most of my fishing, the fish may be able to see it. I still catch fish, with or without the color red so it don't matter to me what they're seeing, as long as they bite my offerings.

 

As far as what is said about lines or hooks by the companies that make them, they're trying to sell a product, keep that in mind.

 

 

[Fred H. 0]

Interesting topic. I wish there were a definetive answer . There have been many studies done about the rods and cones ( light receptors) in the fish eyes and how a fish might see or precieve color. There are some well thought out theories but its still suposistion at this point. I think by trial and error you can get a good idea what will work or not where you fish . As conditions change as far as lighting , water clarity and depth , you may find that some colors or combination of colors are more effective than others.Hope this helps.

Fred

[sniksoh 0]

i do know that bass key in on a bait fishes gills. i read somwhere that a bass is more likely to eat a baitfish with swollen gills over a baitfish with normal gills.

 

gills are red.

 

if the fish couldnt see red, they wouldnt notice if the gills are swollen or not.

 

i do believe in the red hooks. i fish with a spinning rod sometimes and if im using a spinner bait i increase my catches dramasticly by putting on a red trailer hook.

 

i think "cajun red" and other fishing line companies with red line are a scam.

 

just my opinion,

sniksoh

 

 

[flytire 0]

i think "cajun red" and other fishing line companies with red line are a scam.

 

but you believe in red hooks?

 

please explain the scam!

 

do you know the light spectrum?

 

any scientific data to back up the scam?

 

http://www.cajunline.com/technology.html

 

http://fishing.about.com/od/basicfishingin...fishingline.htm

[sniksoh 0]

yes i believe the red hooks because the fish can see them and if they do see them the probably think it blood. but the red line companies are saying the line cant be seen? when i use a red hook i dont use it because i think it is invisible, i use it to immitate blood.

 

here is a website to back up the gill enlargement i was talking about

 

red hooks

[sniksoh 0]

I AM WRONG

 

look at this:

 

red line vs red hooks

 

i am not affraid to admit im wrong.

 

after reading this i began to think, well i guess it is two different colors. translucent red and base red.

 

sorry guys.

 

sniksoh

[tidewaterfly 0]

sniksoh, everyone has theories, but fish don't think. They act on instincts. They react to blood due to a sense of smell, not sight. I have a hard time believing what a lure company puts on their website to sell lures is proof that fish know what red is. I've read other theories that some species target the eyes, or the head of prey. The head & eyes & gills are all at the same end of most prey so which is it they're targeting? Only the fish know, and they're not telling.

 

It's fine to believe in what you're using, that's what gives us confidence to use something.

 

"Scam" is a harsh word & implies something illegal going on.

 

You're confidence in red hooks, but lack of confidence in red lines is a bit contradictory. I've used the cajun red line, it's good line, easy for me to see. I don't know if the fish can see it or not, likely they can but I doubt they relate it to anything dangerous to them.

 

I also use hi vis neon yellow braided line on my baitcasters, without a leader, because I can see it very well. I tie direct to my lures and still catch fish. I've used red & green braided lines too, as well as clear mono & mono tinted all kinds of colors. The fish don't know what the line is, no matter what color it is.

 

I would bet that individual fish could be conditioned or trained that a line, lure or fly combination is harmful to them after repeatedly catching them, but that's a different situation than most of us get into.

 

 

[navigator37 0]

Is it possible that the fish rely less and less on color at a certain depth and rely instead on movement, the shape of the fly and scent instead?

I know a lot of these studies vary about the fish's vision and how it sees.

There is also the big question of different fish seeing different colors better than others.

Therefore, bass, pike and trout may be able to see red better than bluegill, suckers or carp.

I believe that may be the case.

These studies emphasize how a fish sees. They assume fish of different species all see the same

with respect to different colors. I think they are in error.

Just my two cents...

[tidewaterfly 0]

Studies are done to try & help us understand what various fish species see & how they use their sight to feed. However, they compare the fishes sight to ours, but even with all the science involved, there's no sure way of knowing that fish see the same as we do. If you take bass for example, a species which has a lot of time dedicated to study, and a popular sport fish, we know they sometimes feed heavily at night. Bass are primarily a sight feeder, but they also have senses that allows them to find prey they can't see, as in muddy or possibly dark conditions. So, how much do they use each of these senses? Bass can see something at night, otherwise they wouldn't be able to feed in the dark. If their eyes can pick up smaller amounts of light, or possibly colors, that ours can't, then they certainly don't see the same as we do. I can't see in the dark, and add water, I know I couldn't see at all. But, bass can.

 

Trout also feed at night in some places, especially bigger trout. They can see tiny insects, even at night. So, how's that possible? If those small insects give off enough "sound" that trout can find them, even at night, do you think they would know that a line is nearby? I don't know either, but I would guess they could.

 

In the case of red, it dissappears for us to see at certain depths, as there is less light. We need the presence of light to see colors. This is influenced by water clarity of course, but do the fish still see the red line, or the red hook as red, or another color. Both still have substance, transparent or opaque doesn't matter, they still displace a certain amount of water, and create a certain amount of vibration. If the bass knows the line is there, even after the red color dissappears, then what's the point. Bass may still "see" the line with their lateral line, but not see it with their eye sight. Something we can't do. Still we keep comparing their sight to ours.

 

Do they react to the color red? Maybe, maybe not! We don't know what they actually see. Personally, I believe there's a lot more to it than we know at this time, and perhaps someday, it will be figured out to a higher degree of certainty. Will it matter to us as fly tiers? I don't know that either.

 

I know that red has a place in tying, just like any other color. We're attempting to fool fish species who don't think, but who react on instincts. Fish who have a brain the size of a pea or less in most cases. We spend a lot of time trying to fool these animals, and trying to figure out why they do what they do. Yet, we can catch them on a lot of different flies, with a lot of different colors. Go figure.

 

Perhaps we're the ones who need to be studied!

[Dart 0]

Dynamite is typically red... and I hear from a one-armed uncle that it catches a lot of fish.

 

 

[Brian Brown75 0]

I seem to catch more fish on a baitcast rod using a red hook with a wiggle worm maybe it is blood