MontanaBound 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 I am trying to find some good soft hackle, for fairly cheap. i bought 2 india hen back's and one american speckled hen back, but neither was what i was expecting. maybe this is exactly what i need and i just need some more practice. but what else can i use for a few soft hackle patterns. Also the Partridge feathers that come a package don't seem to work to well for what i am looking for. any suggestions? please thanks in advance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the saltydog 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 A starling skin is pretty cheap and works good for soft hackle, there are many patterns. I'm surprised by your comment about the partridge feathers, what do you mean by they aren't working? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MontanaBound 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 well the feathers in my partridge bag are the ones that come pre packaged and seem to have a lot of nicks and just really short feather. like i said i have nothing to go on to say they should be better other than looking at full skins at the fly shop but they just look really ratty. they have a lot of webby feathers at the base that extend pretty far up the feather, and only a very short section that is good and usable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Creek 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 A couple of thoughts: - look at quail skins, these are less expensive than partridge - Call your supplier, they may have "pro-tier" grade partridge skins that have some imperfection (tear, etc). 99% of the feathers still usable, just the skin is less aesthetic for display on the peg-board. I usually shop at Blue Ribbon Flies, they have pro-tier skins each year. Also, please describe what trouble you are having with the hen? Maybe something we can help with? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MontanaBound 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 I am having problems figuring out how to use the feather on the hen back, or for that matter and soft hackle. i pull one feather out, strip the lower parts, trip the quill to a good size where i can tie it on and wrap one in front of the other about 2 wraps and tie it off. seems as though i am really bunching things up and there is just to much there. one wrap seems like not enough. and also to get them to lay back towards the bend of the hook i seem to make a really long head. obviously this is not right. every fly i tie turns out really ugly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hairstacker 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 I am having problems figuring out how to use the feather on the hen back, or for that matter and soft hackle. i pull one feather out, strip the lower parts, trip the quill to a good size where i can tie it on and wrap one in front of the other about 2 wraps and tie it off. seems as though i am really bunching things up and there is just to much there. one wrap seems like not enough. and also to get them to lay back towards the bend of the hook i seem to make a really long head. obviously this is not right. every fly i tie turns out really ugly. Those hen back feathers should work like a charm. You are tying them in near the tip of the feather and not the butt, right? Just take one of those feathers, strip off all the barbs on the right side, and tie it in near the tip with the concave side down and with the tip towards the eye of the hook. Wrap it around a couple of times carefully to make sure you're not twisting the stem so that the barbs stay oriented towards the rear of the hook and then tie off. If you're doing it like this, you shouldn't have much of a problem. -- Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MontanaBound 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 so is it better to tie the feather in from the tip and use it that way or still tie it in close to the tip still leaving some barbeules there. i will try to take some photos of what i have done and you all can tell me what i am doing wrong i hope. thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hairstacker 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 so is it better to tie the feather in from the tip and use it that way or still tie it in close to the tip still leaving some barbeules there. i will try to take some photos of what i have done and you all can tell me what i am doing wrong i hope. thanks. If you take one of those feathers and spread out the barbs, you'll notice the barbs start to get noticeably shorter near the tip. I tie the feather in at the point where the barbs get noticeably shorter so that the barbs below that point are fairly consistent length. That way, you end up with a fly with barbs that are all pretty much the same length. After you tie it in, you can clip off this little tip sticking out of your thread wraps. Does that make sense? Also keep in mind, of course, that the different feathers on the hen back will have barbs of various lengths. So naturally you will want to pick a feather with barbs that are the appropriate length for the size and type of fly you're tying. -- Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MontanaBound 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 yea great thanks for the info. will try this on my next one and try to post some pics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoachBob 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I picked up a whole pheasant skin pretty cheap at Bass Pro and it contains a wonderland of feathers for all purposes, including many that work well for soft hackles down to a 14. For larger than 14 you can try to find guinnea hen or Chinese hen (much of which is very soft and not useful for anything else). For smaller than 14 your going to have to look for partridge -- which is not cheap. Oh, and here's a FREE tool you can get. I went with my wife to the Sephora store (but any cosmetic counter would probably do) and got a couple of their mascara brushes they use to doll up gals. These are free if you ask for a couple and are perfect for separating the hackles on a soft hackle fly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TxEngr 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Bite the bullet and buy a Hungarian Partridge skin. It'll run you $10-20, but will last a very long time. I have found that quail feathers want to stick together more and don't always provide the color I want. That said, I have several skins of quail and use them when it fits. But for the basic soft hackle, I go back to the hun. Here's a link to a video of Jeff Hines describing selecting feathers for use in soft hackle: . TxEngr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maddog48 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Pre-packaged feathers aren't the way to go IMHO. The stems are brittle and dry which can and usually will cause splits. Full skins are the way to go. The hackle stems stay soft because of the oils in the cleaning process that keep the skin soft. Save yourself the aggravation and frustration and like was previously advised .. pick up a good skin where you will get your moneys worth. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Hat 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 OK M.Bound. , I'm going to throw a loop in here. Save up and buy the partridge skin, the bagged stuff is junk as you have found or find someone who hunts and get them to share a skin. You'll spend twice the price in bagged stuff before you get the number of quality hackles of one skin. I use a lot of india hen and they are great hackles for softies. On tying in the hackle. There are different ways to tie in your hackle. Personally I prefer the way Leisenring tied his hackles in for both looks and durability, but most important durability. Try this and I think you will have smaller heads and a more durable soft hackle. 1. Strip the stem from the bottom up to where the hackle fibers are the length you need. Looking at the concave side, strip just a couple more fibers from the left side. 2. Before you tie the fly's body attach the hackle feather. Tie in the hackle concave side up just below the hackle fibers (leave just a tiny bit of the stem showing below the hackles left) and just behind the eye of the hook. So the hackle should be extending out over the hook eye. 3. Tie your body, and end your thread just behind the hackle tie in. 4. Now, lift your hackle straight up at a 90 degree angle to the hook shank. Take one or two wraps of the hackle rearward and tie it down with two tight wraps of the thread. Trim the tip off. Once you get use to this and you are confident in your two tight tie down wraps, you can just pull quickly on the hackle tip and snap it off. This is actually better because it makes a rough tear which lessens any chance of the hackle pulling out from under the wraps. 5. Wrap the thread forward with just a couple wraps through the hackles to the eye of the hook. 6. Form a small head and tie off. Why do I use this technique and feel it is superior to others? 1. You're tying in the hackle by the thicker "stronger" part of the stem. 2. You are reinforcing the hackle when you wrap the thread forward through it. 3. The thread will also make the hackles stand out. Contrary to popular belief, you do not want your hackles to sweep back. You want them to "explode" out from the hook shank so that they "struggle and come alive" under water. 4. This technique makes it easy to tie small heads which is a signature of a well-tied soft hackle. Note: Soft hackles work best if they are not "neat". You can see a lot of soft hackles on this site by many talented softy tiers. I bet most will tell you that when a fly is tied to be pictured here, there is a bit more effort put into the looks of the fly. A messy soft hackle fishes best, so don't get too frustrated with the looks of the fly. With practice you'll be able to get it to look just how you want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valhalla 1 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Thanks Old Hat, you've given me something new to try today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MontanaBound 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 yea Old Hat, that is a great way now that you mention it, hope you don't care if i use your technique. seems very easy and sturdy. thanks again all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites