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lykos33

super glue?

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I have been using Loctite Brushable super glue on ALL my Chironomid bodies for years and have NEVER had a issue with it being dry or drying up on me.

 

Here are a few pics of the flies I coat with it.

P1011092.jpg

P1011091.jpg

P1010387.JPG

 

 

Rick

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That's the stuff I use Rick. I tie and fish .. and give away .. a bunch of Zebra midges and like I said earlier, I have never had a fly turn white. I would have no problem recommending it to anyone.

 

 

Mike

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That's the stuff I use Rick. I tie and fish .. and give away .. a bunch of Zebra midges and like I said earlier, I have never had a fly turn white. I would have no problem recommending it to anyone.

 

 

Mike

 

Totally agree. I would have NO ISSUE recommending it to ANYONE.

 

Rick

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Here's some science I just received at flyanglersonline.com. Tells why super glue and foam make a permanent seal.

 

Craft foam is a polyurethane closed cell foam. It is a polyol (weak base) resin reacted with an isocyanate..the isocyanates are similar chemisty to the super glue. So not only does the super glue react with the thin layer of moisture on the foam, but it actually crosslinks with the polyol resin (left over unreacted sites) within the foam..so the Bond is much greater and will hold better and longer. You will proabably see a failure in other areas of the foam before the foam - super glue- foam bond breaks.

 

Sounds permanent to me.

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Am I the only guy that does not use head cement?

I haven't used head cement in years, and have not had any problems with my flies coming unbuttoned.

Have you ever tried to untie a fly? Most times it is not any easy task.

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Your not alone in kicking head cement aside. The CA glue I have is very thin and absorbs deep into the thread wraps before drying to make the thread a solid piece. The only way for the fly to come undone after it is CA glued is if all the thread wraps are cut off with a razor. Also it works great for bonding foam bodies to the hooks. A little drop of CA, push the body on the hook, and it's done. And just like it was mentioned before it is permanent. The foam doesn't spin on the hook and the only way it is coming off is in pieces with a knife.

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Am I the only guy that does not use head cement?

I haven't used head cement in years, and have not had any problems with my flies coming unbuttoned.

Have you ever tried to untie a fly? Most times it is not any easy task.

 

There are certain situations where I've found head cement to be absolutely needed.

 

1) on large bucktails, where the head of the fly is finished as a tapered thread "cone". Even with double whip finishes, the thread can slip forward toward the hook eye and come undone.

 

2) on a few styles of foam bugs I tie, I add silicone legs "X-style", or tying them in by the middle, on each side of the fly. I don't use maximum tension to do this, and it is the last step. I whip finish in front of the legs to preserve the body shape, using only moderate tension so as to not deform the foam body. The thread wraps must be glued to stay in place. For this I use some thin flexament, or hard-as-nails.

 

Those are two which come to mind without thinking too hard. I agree on flies without much of a head and tension can be kept tight, head cement is less critical.

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Perhaps it has been mentioned before here and I didn't read it. However, one thing I am finding helps me get more use out of whatever container of superglue I am using is to store it in a sealed container in the refrigerator when not in use.

 

The idea came to me from a conversation I had with a lab technician and his engineer son-in-law.

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Perhaps it has been mentioned before here and I didn't read it. However, one thing I am finding helps me get more use out of whatever container of superglue I am using is to store it in a sealed container in the refrigerator when not in use.

 

The idea came to me from a conversation I had with a lab technician and his engineer son-in-law.

 

 

...and that is all the reason I need to go buy a little mini fridge for my tying room...thanks SP ....hehehe :devil2:

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I've been using ZapaGap for a very long time. It last 3-4 months without drying up, and there is a way to have total control of the amount that comes out of the container.

 

Tucked up inside the cover is a small tube. When you break off the cap you insert the tube in the hole and seal it with a hot wax gun (candle wax works but not as well).

 

With a pair of flat nosed pliers pinch the end of the tube where you apply it to the fly, how much of the tube you pinch and how hard you pinch the tube will determine the amount that will come out at each application.

 

To clear the end of the tube I use a small wire and or cut off a small bit of the tube.

 

When you buy it make sure it is a thin liquid in the bottle and try to shop where their turnover is often. I can usually finish a 1 ounce bottle before it dries up.

 

Mel

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I am a big fan of Locktite as a super glue, and I buy the tall pointed applicator bottle, but I don't use the applicator as such. I tie almost every day, so the first thing I do is throw the cap away, not saying you should, but I don't have much of a problem with the stuff drying out or getting too thick for at least three to four months. Now, I live in the deep south where humidity is a way of life, that may have some effect on the drying out of the glue, but I don't know for sure. I also don't use the applicator bottle to apply the glue, instead I use a variation of the previously mentioned toothpick idea. I have found with super glue less is usually more, so to get a very small amount of glue on the toothpick, I simply place a drop of glue on a piece of hard plastic, like an old tupperware lid. I then dip the toothpick into the drop and repeat as is necessary. This prevents me from getting to much glue on the objects to be joined. After a month or two the nozzle may become somewhat crusty, I simply pinch it with some needle nose pliers to break it free, good for another month or so. And while the glue may eventually become somewhat thicker, again after several months, it still retains its adhesive quality. But at $3 or so a couple times a year, it is not one of my major tying expenses, so if it is too thick I go pick up a new one at Home Depot or wherever. . However, I do not use Locktite as a head cement type of coating, I use it only for its adhesive qualities. For a head coating I use a product like Clear Cure Goo, Dave's Fleximent, or Sally Hansons.

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Always an interesting discussion about glue, gentlemen!

 

Back to the original point... super glues will harden over time, whether in the open air, in a plastic container (shelf life), or exposure to air. If the super glue you buy is gelled or hardening, the store has had it quite a while. The longer the cap is off when you are using the glue, the quicker it will harden. I'm certainly no chemist but I suspect it's the evaporation of base liquid (ethyl? :dunno: ). So... I suggest another source for "fresher" ethyl cyanoacrylite and minimize the air exposure (get the cap back on quick) for the best results. In other words... get it from a different store and check for dust.

 

FWIW, I use Loctite super glue when needed.

 

As for the no glue/lots-o-glue camp... It's true you don't need glue to hold a simple fly together if the thread, your tying, and the knots are sound. However, using glues simply lets you do a bit more, and in some cases makes a nicer finished product if you're fishing for fishers; depends on what you want to achieve. There are many types and each has its own purpose/properties, and these really just allow us to expand the possibilities of our patterns while maintaining durability (no fun spending all the effort to catch one fish on each fly before it falls apart). Certain cements react differently to different materials, especially synthetics. To this point, look to Dave Whitlock- definitely an expert here, uses different glues, each to its own use. I wouldn't dare tell him he's been wrong all these years.

 

Then, to make matters worse... there are several companies manufacturing super glues, waterproof glues, head cements, etc. Each company's product is not equal, and the stores that stock them have varied schedules of rotation (shelf life), so you pretty much have to experiment and go with what works. I've used plain lacquer thinned with lacquer thinner for more than 12 years with consistent, good results. I've also had many people tell me they tried it and it doesn't work (clouds up in water, doesn't hold, etc.). I still use the lacquer, and my customers, I, and plenty of fish are more than pleased. Carrie Stevens used lacquer on her wonderful streamers and there are a (sadly few) number of originals still around that look pretty darn good! In other words, as Hans would say, your mileage may vary.

 

Really, you can limit yourself all you want- your choice. Most folks who come up with great patterns have experimented with all the variables and spent a lot of time... I'd go with what they say... just my .02 unless you like startin from scratch.

 

Like I tell all my tying class students- intimately know your tools, your materials, and use that information to your tying/fishing advantage... and always look for new information to benefit your goal despite the source, beginner or expert- everyone has ideas, and we all benefit by sharing and trying.

 

P.S. I love the look on mom's face when I tell her junior can use Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails!!! :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

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actually, it is water molecules (moisture, humidity) which MAKES cyanoacrylate glues work.

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I only use it when working with foam or with wiggle eyes. I works for me. Just experiment to see what your fancy is. I agree with Trout Bum about the whip finish.

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