Tying Clinic Etiquette

[David Legg 0]

I have been to a number of fly tying clinics at local fly shops. Over the last couple of seasons, I have been going to clinics at Laughing Grizzly Fly Shop in Longmont, Colorado, about twenty minutes from my home. They bring in a wealth of great tyers... names like Rick Takahashi, Al Ritt, Charlie Craven, Steve Schweitzer and other highly accomplished tyers to show some techniques and some really slick tricks. They often show off some of their secret weapons while they are tying and occasionally a unique trick pattern that makes everyone sit up and look. There are two primary reasons that a specialty store will go to the trouble of putting together demoes like these. The foremost is to develop great relationships with their customers. They hope that by demonstrating their appreciation of their customers through offering such great learning opportunities, their customers will also appreciate them; that they will feel that this is "their fly shop" if you will. Also, by showing off a lot of new tips and techniques, they might benefit from someone deciding to tie some new stuff... and heaven forbid, might need to BUY something that they don't already have. In the short run or the long run, this might incrementally enhance their sales. I think this is a great thing. I get the benefit of some amazingly valuable instruction... something that I would probably have to pay a lot of money for if I was lining it up on my own. And I do feel more loyal to the shop for creating this opportunity for me.

 

But I have an issue with the behavior of some of the customers who attend these events. At nearly every event, I hear someone either sharing with someone else sitting there or muttering about how this material or that material is cheaper if you go to this or that discount store. And I happen to go to those same stores and see the same prices. I don't just go to buy stuff cheaper. I go to see what they have, and sometimes find things that I can't get elsewhere, and I might buy those things if I like them. If I see something on some crazy clearance price that I would never buy, I might grab that at any store just to give it a try and see if I've been missing something. But if I am at a demo, and they show off a material that I don't have, and I want to try that pattern, I grab it off the shelf at the shop that's offering the demo, and I don't worry about trying to save a quarter or a buck by going to some discount store that I think might have it cheaper. Let me put it this way. If they charged five dollars to attend these demoes, and I wanted to see a particular tyer, I would consider that a bargain. So why would I want to worry about spending an extra dollar to buy a few things from them? And the real truth is, they might be a little higher on some items, but they are not higher on all items. They are actually cheaper on some items. But who cares? I get a great value for my money because of the relationship I have with them. I can go to them for advice on any number of things, and they are pleased to help me. Anytime I get that kind of service from a discount store, I am happy to patronize them too. It just doesn't happen nearly as often, since they usually don't have many knowledgeable and passionate personnel on staff. Fair is fair, in my opinion. If you show me something great that will do exactly what I am trying to do, and you aren't trying to rip me off by jacking the price way up, I will buy it! A difference of a few coins one way or the other is irrelevent.

 

This took a strange new twist recently when Laughing Grizzly did an "open vise" event, which allowed anyone who wished to show off some patterns. Several of the tyers who participated showed off materials they were using to tie which were ON THE SHELF at Lauging Grizzly, or which had a direct well known substitute ON THE SHELF, but then they either recommended getting the material from a DIFFERENT fly shop or getting something at Wal-mart, or Joanne's Fabrics, or some other source.

Really? Are you kidding me?

 

After thinking about this for a while, it finally dawned on me. THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER! That's the only explanation that makes sense to me. No one (ok, almost no one) would choose to do something so tacky and downright rude on purpose. So I decided to post this topic in order to put my thoughts out there, in order to get people to think. If no one says anything, it's quite possible that people will just keep on behaving this way.

 

Let me give you a little of my background that will help you understand why I feel I have special insight regarding this issue. While I am a bi-vocational pastor, and have been for some time, before that, I spent a lot of years in the specialty camera business. Overall, I was in the imaging business for over 30 years in various parts of the field, but a large part of that time was spent in the retail business, either in management or in sales. But now there is virtually no specialty camera business left in the country. There are a few stores here and there struggling to hang on, and a handful around the country that are still enjoying some success. But over 99 percent of the specialty stores we once had in the camera business went out of business a long time ago. Why? Because people stopped feeling any loyalty to their stores at all. They somehow felt that it was ok to go to a specialty store, spend a couple of hours learning everything that they wanted to know, and then going somewhere else to save twenty bucks. My personal opinion is that it was not ok. It happened now and then years ago. But as people became less loyal, and did that more often, specialty stores were no longer able to pay to maintain staffs to offer the level of service they had formerly, and so they gradually became unable to continue doing business. It's a shame, but that's that. There's no going back. Specialty fly shops are subject to these same pressures. I am not saying that we owe specialty stores our sole undivided loyalty no matter what. But I think we need to play fair with them, show them some respect, and demonstrate a minimum level of courtesy and decency while in their place of business, especially as guests at an event.

[Hot Tuna 0]

Well said....the folks that buy at demo store also allow a reasonable distance when fishing in your vicinity..my humble guess.

[David Legg 0]

Well said....the folks that buy at demo store also allow a reasonable distance when fishing in your vicinity..my humble guess.

 

ROFL

That cracked me up! Nicely put!

[Pastor Ron 0]

From one pastor to another.... Amen! Loyalty, commitment, integrity, respect...... largely have become relics...

[whatfly 0]

Personally, I don't think ignorance alone explains the behavior. For many, if not most people the bottom line is all that matters. This is why Walmart is so popular. And then there are those who gain a great deal of satisfaction from saving a few dollars...doesn't matter if waste time and/or fuel to save those couple of buck, the self-gratification far exceeds the money saved. Indeed if you make this same argument on some forums (sometimes here in fact), you will be beset by folks characterizing fly shops as "money grubbing so-and-so's that don't deserve my business." The analogy of the camera store is a good one, but your can add to it the demise of the audio/stero store, old fashion sporting goods store, the record store, the book store, etc., etc., etc.

[dafunk5446 0]

Well said David, I too also frequent laughing grizzly, and they are really a great bunch of guys. I have never been to a class personally, but Dick has asked me frequently to do a winged wet class and unfortunately my school schedule wont permit.

[FishyboY 0]

AMEN to that brother! Well put david!

[Ridleyffo 0]

I just tried to point these facts out to my wife. We are buying some new kitchen appliances and after going to the big box stores to see all of the varieties. I was frustrated from the lack of sales assistance and product knowledge that the big box guys offered. Even Sears, where I have traditionally bought most of my major appliances was severely lacking in product knowledge. (except to tell me this is a great brand, great range and we have a great warranty program)

 

I convinced my wife that we would do better going to one of the mom and pop appliance stores. After spending considerable time with one guy I could see she understood the difference a good salesman makes. He was able to give reasons why something was better or worse than another brand or product, feedback he received from his loyal customers on different brands or products, believable comparison that didnt always tip in favor of the higher price point. And guess what, they had basically the same prices as the best buys store

[Fred H. 0]

The nearest flyshop is over 2 1/2 hrs away. I would go to great lengths to keep a local flyshop in the same area code.

you can't put a price on good service and experienced and Knowledgable salestaff. Not to mention being able to handle tools and supplies in person versus buying them from a computor screen.

The gal at the hobby store might not know if the caddis hatch is still on and she wont be able to tell you the best hackle for a no. 18 dry.

The thing is having a specialty shop of any kind in your town is becomming more and more of a rarity. They cannot beat the big box stores on pricing. They are an intimate part of Americana that we will sorely miss if we don't take steps to save them. The owners of these specialty stores , whether fly shop or camera shop have one thing in common. They have a passion for it. And with that passion goes a wealth of knowledge .

[JSzymczyk 0]

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you can't put a price on good service and experienced and Knowledgable salestaff. Not to mention being able to handle tools and supplies in person versus buying them from a computor screen.

 

 

there is no arguing that, and if you have that situation, you are very lucky.

 

I've been in shops on both ends, and the middle of the spectrum. I was at a shop a few years ago in Santa Rosa, California, basically just looking around. There was a young kid working there who IMMEDIATELY asked me if he could help me find anything, what I might be looking for, etc. I browsed a short while and he came over and started talking about the local fishing, where was I from, showing me some small stuff which he said was used locally a lot, just a nice all around guy and I ended up buying an armload of stuff I really didn't need, but thought maybe I would sometime. He wasn't really trying to sell me anything, unless he was so good I didn't even realize it, he was just talking about fishing because he was really happy about it.

 

I was recently in another shop here locally in central Pa near the Yellow Breeches. I came in and the two guys (allegedly) working there were talking with someone who was obviously a buddy of theirs about steelhead in Erie, how the guy was starting to guide locally, how he caught 27 trout last weekend on a caddis but his client for the day couldn't seem to get the hang of it, patting each other on the back and telling each other how great they were. I browsed for 15 minutes right in front of these guys and not once did anyone acknowledge my presence UNTIL I walked over to the Hardy rod rack. I talked about this in another thread. Needless to say I won't go back there. It might have been a couple of part-timers for all I know, but why should I go spend money in a shop when they obviously don't give a turd about me?

 

The behavior described about people at a class talking smack about getting stuff cheaper somewhere else, THAT is just plain ill manners. Bunch of jackasses, I know the type. Spend 45 minutes driving somewhere to save 24 cents on a bag of dubbing.

 

By and large, the behavior you described is due to people just being inconsiderate, and that is extremely common these days.

 

I'm happy to spend my hard-earned dollars on stuff I want, in a shop that at least ACTS like they appreciate my business. They bitch and complain about Bass Pro and Cabelas, and Walmart putting them out of business, and in some part that is indeed true, but it ain't the whole story.

[smallieFanatic 0]

You said it :headbang:

My local fly shop (Pats Atomic) is a great place....spendy but the best in service. I've gotten to know the proprieter and he is a really great guy. I buy most of my fly tying stuff there.

 

 

Jan

[Fishkill 0]

I've been in shops on both ends, and the middle of the spectrum. I was at a shop a few years ago in Santa Rosa, California, basically just looking around. There was a young kid working there who IMMEDIATELY asked me if he could help me find anything, what I might be looking for, etc. I browsed a short while and he came over and started talking about the local fishing, where was I from, showing me some small stuff which he said was used locally a lot, just a nice all around guy and I ended up buying an armload of stuff I really didn't need, but thought maybe I would sometime. He wasn't really trying to sell me anything, unless he was so good I didn't even realize it, he was just talking about fishing because he was really happy about it.

 

I was recently in another shop here locally in central Pa near the Yellow Breeches. I came in and the two guys (allegedly) working there were talking with someone who was obviously a buddy of theirs about steelhead in Erie, how the guy was starting to guide locally, how he caught 27 trout last weekend on a caddis but his client for the day couldn't seem to get the hang of it, patting each other on the back and telling each other how great they were. I browsed for 15 minutes right in front of these guys and not once did anyone acknowledge my presence UNTIL I walked over to the Hardy rod rack. I talked about this in another thread. Needless to say I won't go back there. It might have been a couple of part-timers for all I know, but why should I go spend money in a shop when they obviously don't give a turd about me?

 

True dat! I have been in both types of situations. But in the same shop at different times! Basically I let the guys pleasure each other, get what I need and get out. I have only been tying for about 3 years but the last year I have been getting more serious and I have used this shop to familiarize myself with materials. If theirs anything new I might try it out and its pretty easy to stop by because its right on my way home from work. The "in hand" factor is important for me. There is a fellow that chats me up and I thouroughly enjoy talking about fishing and patterns. Although he has told me the same story several times I try to chalk it up as genuine enthusiasm and a large number of customers. Unfortunately the fly shop situation (materials wise) is pretty far spread in my area. I like to go where I can talk to someone who doesnt treat me like a dumbass, and who doesnt try to sell me something all the time. I expect to be treated like a nobody at a bass pro and/or a cabelas. Although some guys who work in certain shops like those have been helpful and a pleasure to speak with( even if they were trying to sell me on something). Cabelas has a great bargain bin and nice waders. Seems that the fly shop im used to thinks everyone needs a pair of Simms G3 Guide pro goretex super battle chainmail waders. I just want something that doesnt break the bank.

[TitanFlies 0]

how the guy was starting to guide locally, how he caught 27 trout last weekend on a caddis but his client for the day couldn't seem to get the hang of it, patting each other on the back and telling each other how great they were.

 

LMFAO! I laughed hard when I read that :hyst: SO TRUE! Though I must admit, I do buy materials from places like Cabelas and on occasion a Bass Pro, I do try to buy at least 1 thing every week for when I got to my shop (One More Cast) for a tye-along... just common sense/right thing to do. I totally agree when you talk about the inconsideration and ignorance of people when they are at a shop and going on and on about low prices n stuff somewhere else.

 

The way I look at it, spend the money/time if you can. If you can't (especially in this frickin' economy) then I doubt anyone will look down on you merely because you want to sacrifice some service for a buck... right?

 

To reiterate, I DO enjoy my shop and the proprietor and the service and loyalty (both ways). But sometimes you just gotta trade off... there's a silver-lining and a pitfall to everything.

[Guest]

how the guy was starting to guide locally, how he caught 27 trout last weekend on a caddis but his client for the day couldn't seem to get the hang of it...

 

Am I reading this right? This guide was fishing while guiding? That is just wrong. I hire guides several time a year, and if one picked up a rod and started fishing I would fire him on the spot.

[Hairstacker 0]

how the guy was starting to guide locally, how he caught 27 trout last weekend on a caddis but his client for the day couldn't seem to get the hang of it...

 

Am I reading this right? This guide was fishing while guiding? That is just wrong. I hire guides several time a year, and if one picked up a rod and started fishing I would fire him on the spot.

 

No kidding . . . not only fishing while guiding but apparently so focused on it that he caught 27 trout while his client was struggling. Sounds like he owes his client a refund and needs to search for a conscience. I know a guide out here that not only doesn't fish while guiding but works his butt off to do everything possible to get a client into fish, and failing that, has been known to offer a client another day on the water for free if the client gets skunked. That's the kind of mental attitude you want in a guide.