Cree Subsitutes!!!

[David Legg 0]

True Cree Cape

 

 

It's... beautiful! Those are some great pictures! Thanks a lot for posting those!

 

Thanks... but do you really think it is prettier than that hackle you have posted on your profile image? Notice I own a lot more Barred Dark Ginger, and you'll be able to guess which I think is prettier.

[flytire 0]

Most people end up buying Cree because they think it's pretty or cool, or whatever... not because they need it.

 

i think that says it all!

 

besides how many fly patterns ACTUALLY call for cree in the recipe!

 

heres a good article from a grower of birds

 

http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying/cree.php

 

plus if you are substituting a "cree substitute" (since they are extremely rare and hard to get) to tie an adams , it is now an adams variant not the adams recipe that is so well known today.

[JSzymczyk 0]

Hey David, I'll give you $15 for that Pro-Grade neck, and I'll even pay postage!!! Plus I'll throw in half a dozen HAND TIED dry flies from the finest shops in Africa. :whistle:

 

not too many patterns do actually call for it. It does have an appeal all it's own though, and certainly makes some highly suggestive flies. Very "lifelike" effects with this hackle.

[David Legg 0]

Most people end up buying Cree because they think it's pretty or cool, or whatever... not because they need it.

 

i think that says it all!

 

besides how many fly patterns ACTUALLY call for cree in the recipe!

 

heres a good article from a grower of birds

 

http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying/cree.php

 

plus if you are substituting a "cree substitute" (since they are extremely rare and hard to get) to tie an adams , it is now an adams variant not the adams recipe that is so well known today.

 

Dennis makes some good points in his article. One thing I have noticed from Whiting lately that is different is an extreme standard on the cree capes. There are some Barred Dark Ginger capes out there that would be labeled Cree from most any other company, since they have a high percentage of cree feathers on them, sometimes more than 50% on capes I have seen. Whiting has carved a higher standard that leaves these fringe cree capes marked as Barred Dark Ginger. My Cree cape has a few dark ginger/brown hackles mixed in, but so few that If I bought a Grizzly cape and had that few I wouldn't even think of it as a variant... come to think of it, I have one. On the other hand, the saddles I have seen stray more to the variant side, and mine is no exception. It has a significant percentage of hackle which is medium to dark ginger as well as some individual feathers which are half cree and half golden badger and so on. I have feathers just like those on a Grizzly variant saddle. Back to the capes, I have seen Cree capes from some companies that didn't have more than 30 cree hackle on them. The rest was Barred Dark Ginger. Those would be labeled as Barre Dark Ginger by Whiting, and by Conranch, but apparently not by every major company. That is fine as long as you buy the hackle from a sight selection. I might be a little put off if I mail ordered one and received it like that. I would expect more. I think it would be great if Whiting offered Cree in 100s or more split capes and quarter saddles to alleviate demand somewhat, but my guess is that this is a golden goose that no one would really like to kill. Satisfy the demand, and the price plunges. And despite Conranch apparently having a higher percentage of Cree bird being produced, no one is producing large numbers of birds at this time. I still believe that there is a non-genetic component to the development of Cree plumage... possibly diet temperature or something that triggers a particular protein at some point in their development. Someone will find it by accident if it is. They'll have a year when they have a population surge in lightning bugs and all the Grizzly roosters that eat them go Cree or something crazy like that.

 

My position remains that if you already have what you need for the majority of patterns you tie, and you really like Cree buy it. But cover the basics first.

 

 

[David Legg 0]

Hey David, I'll give you $15 for that Pro-Grade neck, and I'll even pay postage!!! Plus I'll throw in half a dozen HAND TIED dry flies from the finest shops in Africa. :whistle:

 

not too many patterns do actually call for it. It does have an appeal all it's own though, and certainly makes some highly suggestive flies. Very "lifelike" effects with this hackle.

 

Oh wow! Let me think about that!

 

You are right though... it has its appeal.

[TitanFlies 0]

Well, I gues I sort of am buying what I want over need. I already have a saddle of Grizzly and Brown and a quarter saddle of black. Perhaps I'll just like this psuedo-Cree more for parachutes or something of that nature.

[JSzymczyk 0]

Well, I gues I sort of am buying what I want over need. I already have a saddle of Grizzly and Brown and a quarter saddle of black. Perhaps I'll just like this psuedo-Cree more for parachutes or something of that nature.

 

 

this whole crazy addiction called Fly Tying is all about buying what you WANT, because we really don't NEED any of it. I don't really tie many standard dry flies, but I really like good feathers....

[Futzer 0]

I still buy medium brown, ginger, etc. and grizzly to mix it how I want. Cree is lovely, but tough to get, so I got out of the habit for looking for it. When tying with it, I was more dissapointed with the color results than using a brown and a grizzly. When I hackle with two hackles I tie one in aft at the start of the hackle space and one just infront of the wings. I wrap the front one back and then forward and tie off, then wrap the back one forward. I think I get a more solid finished hackle this way.

 

Anyway Titan, glad to see you are tying!

 

Cheers, Jeff.

[Hot Tuna 0]

It's the fun of the chase for it...this year I found two for reasonable prices. I got a Hebert Miner pro grade cree out of the January flock for the sticker price of $30.00....these have been being resold on EBay for between 75 and 90 dollars...silly.

The second one I found in Mike Hogue's wash bucket of unbranded necks he had at the Catskill Fly Fishing Museum show for $35.00...he's not supposed to say the grower so I won't. I was handling that neck and another guy came over and was eyeing it...I said "Nice one..huh?" ..he said "yup"...it was Mike Valla. Great guy and great new book on Catskill Flies.

Eric Leiser's wood chuck caddis calls for cree...a great pattern. I also like it for palmering caddis flies as well as the one feather adams....see Charlie Craven's super video on the two minute parachute Adams.

In summary, do I need it?...no.

Do I want it...YES!

[TitanFlies 0]

I still buy medium brown, ginger, etc. and grizzly to mix it how I want. Cree is lovely, but tough to get, so I got out of the habit for looking for it. When tying with it, I was more dissapointed with the color results than using a brown and a grizzly. When I hackle with two hackles I tie one in aft at the start of the hackle space and one just infront of the wings. I wrap the front one back and then forward and tie off, then wrap the back one forward. I think I get a more solid finished hackle this way.

 

Anyway Titan, glad to see you are tying!

 

Cheers, Jeff.

Mr. Futzer! Long time no speak! I don't know guys, even if Cree isn't the best looking feather for dry flies, I'd still like to have it... much like the peice of Virign Mary toast that went on eBay for 30 grand!

[Hot Tuna 0]

PS Great hackle p**n David.

[Hot Tuna 0]

Another good source for barred gingers is Charlie Collins...I recently got a taling packet and it had some wonderful cree tailing in it...I would have loved to see the cape off that bird...that went to the "existing customer" list.

Last I checked I still existed....just kidding Charlie.

 

[dafunk5446 0]

I agree cree would be nice to have, I dont think its the end all be all though. I have a similar saddle to yours Titan, and love it! Great stuff, another color to check out is a grizzly dyed march brown...sexy.

[David Legg 0]

Well, I gues I sort of am buying what I want over need. I already have a saddle of Grizzly and Brown and a quarter saddle of black. Perhaps I'll just like this psuedo-Cree more for parachutes or something of that nature.

 

 

this whole crazy addiction called Fly Tying is all about buying what you WANT, because we really don't NEED any of it. I don't really tie many standard dry flies, but I really like good feathers....

 

 

:bugeyes: Oh my gosh! Don't type so loud! My wife could have heard you type that! She still thinks I need this stuff!

[David Legg 0]

It's the fun of the chase for it...this year I found two for reasonable prices. I got a Hebert Miner pro grade cree out of the January flock for the sticker price of $30.00....these have been being resold on EBay for between 75 and 90 dollars...silly.

The second one I found in Mike Hogue's wash bucket of unbranded necks he had at the Catskill Fly Fishing Museum show for $35.00...he's not supposed to say the grower so I won't. I was handling that neck and another guy came over and was eyeing it...I said "Nice one..huh?" ..he said "yup"...it was Mike Valla. Great guy and great new book on Catskill Flies.

Eric Leiser's wood chuck caddis calls for cree...a great pattern. I also like it for palmering caddis flies as well as the one feather adams....see Charlie Craven's super video on the two minute parachute Adams.

In summary, do I need it?...no.

Do I want it...YES!

 

Nice buys! WTG! :headbang:

Besides the stuff that does call for it, it is just pretty to use as an option. Honestly, if I could tie poppers like some of the Aces on the forum, I'd think about tailing some with Cree from that cape.