Selling Flies!!!

[JRG 0]

Good luck Mark. From what I've seen you have a lot of room for improvement but don't let that stop you. You have a lot enthusiasm which is what counts. Me, I can barely tie the same pattern 3 times in a row but I know some local guys who crank out hundreds of dozens of the same flies in a month..... It'll be a great tying experience either way.

[Gustav F. 0]

Mark, as already has been said, be careful with making buisness out of your hobbby. I have tried it out and it wasn't very much fun. I still sell flies ocassionally though, but only on my conditions. I never force myself into tying or selling any flies if I don't feel like it. But every now and then it's great to sell flies if I am in need of some cash.

 

I have exposed myself at several forums, tied at fairs, I hang out with a lot of different flyfishers, and I have shown what I can do and through that made some implicit commersials. I didn't think of it but when people started contacting me to buy flies I took advantage of it. So also, don't be passive if you wan't customers, "make some noise" (discreetly, but still)

 

Good luck! And remember, don't let anyone force you to tie or sell otherwise you'll kill your interest in no time at all.

[Flytyer14 0]

Fyi I only had been tying flies for a year when I started Day5flies.com. I still have customers form my first year buying flies today. As far as covering costs. it is a good idea to know what the cost of materials is then factor how many flies you can tie an hour. I will not normally tie for less then 10 bucks an hour....

 

I have been tying for about 2 years now. You charge per hour?

[tidewaterfly 0]

Mark, I wish you the best of success with the business venture! :yahoo:

 

There are some folks around who have made successful businesses from fly tying, so it's not impossible to do. Since you're starting at an early age, it could be something you can build, and who knows where it might lead you! The brothers who started Cabelas, started out tying flies at a kitchen table, and now Cabelas is one of the leading outfitters in the world, so anythings possible. :thumbup:

 

These folks have given you some great advice. Keep in mind, it takes money to make money, and I recall a post where you said you hardly can buy hooks. If you're going to operate any business, you will need some money to do so. It doesn't take a large investment to tie flies, but not having operating capital will seriously limit your growth. Just starting out, you'll want to limit your fly patterns & sizes anyway, this will help with not having to stock all the different materials, hook styles & sizes. If you intend to tie custom orders, then expect to be asked for sizes & patterns that you won't have materials on hand to tie!

 

Also, there are taxes & licenses that need to be dealt with. As a commercial fly tier, you will be a "manufacturer", which means you'll be required to charge & pay Federal Excise Tax on every fly you produce & sell. There's a lot more to tying as a business than you're probably currently aware of!

 

You also need to have dedication to make a tying business successful. This means you won't be spending much time fishing, because you'll need to be tying flies, either for orders, or to stock up to stay ahead of orders.

 

Don't expect to get rich either. If you sell your flies to shops for resale, you'll only get about half the price they sell the flies for, so if a fly sells for $1.50, you can only expect to get $0.75 each for your work. If you only sell your flies to consumers, you can set your prices accordingly, but there are plenty of flies out there in the open market, and you'll be competing with all of them.

 

There have been several posts about commercial tying, it would be a good idea to read through them, and perhaps you'll gain a little more insight into what it takes to operate a successful tying business.

 

I tied flies commercially for 15 years, so any advise I can give, feel free to ask!

 

Good Luck with it!

 

 

[JSzymczyk 0]

Mark, I wish you the best of success with the business venture! :yahoo:

 

There are some folks around who have made successful businesses from fly tying, so it's not impossible to do. Since you're starting at an early age, it could be something you can build, and who knows where it might lead you! The brothers who started Cabelas, started out tying flies at a kitchen table, and now Cabelas is one of the leading outfitters in the world, so anythings possible. :thumbup:

 

These folks have given you some great advice. Keep in mind, it takes money to make money, and I recall a post where you said you hardly can buy hooks. If you're going to operate any business, you will need some money to do so. It doesn't take a large investment to tie flies, but not having operating capital will seriously limit your growth. Just starting out, you'll want to limit your fly patterns & sizes anyway, this will help with not having to stock all the different materials, hook styles & sizes. If you intend to tie custom orders, then expect to be asked for sizes & patterns that you won't have materials on hand to tie!

 

Also, there are taxes & licenses that need to be dealt with. As a commercial fly tier, you will be a "manufacturer", which means you'll be required to charge & pay Federal Excise Tax on every fly you produce & sell. There's a lot more to tying as a business than you're probably currently aware of!

 

You also need to have dedication to make a tying business successful. This means you won't be spending much time fishing, because you'll need to be tying flies, either for orders, or to stock up to stay ahead of orders.

 

Don't expect to get rich either. If you sell your flies to shops for resale, you'll only get about half the price they sell the flies for, so if a fly sells for $1.50, you can only expect to get $0.75 each for your work. If you only sell your flies to consumers, you can set your prices accordingly, but there are plenty of flies out there in the open market, and you'll be competing with all of them.

 

There have been several posts about commercial tying, it would be a good idea to read through them, and perhaps you'll gain a little more insight into what it takes to operate a successful tying business.

 

I tied flies commercially for 15 years, so any advise I can give, feel free to ask!

 

Good Luck with it!

 

 

that's a lot of great info. Re-Read the part about the TAXES. If you appear to have a business, instead of just being "that guy who ties flies for me", you will need to deal with TAXES. Double edged sword.... If you do it by-the-book from where you are now, you will learn all about the system and it will be extremely difficult. You may, however, end up being the next Cabela's or Bass Pro Shop, as Tidewater said.

 

By all means, tie the flies and see how it goes. If it was me, and it isn't, I would fly under the radar for a while without any sort of business name to see how it goes. If it starts to expand and be a real money-maker, you can decide what to do then.

 

This is only my OPINION and I've only ever sold flies on a very small scale and never NEVER been accused of being a "commercial tyer" or businessman of any type!!

 

Good luck with it and I really hope it works out. Hey, if you get enough $$ out of the deal to buy some new materials, you're still ahead.

[TOM PRUETT 0]

Ihave been wanting to open a fishing store by me for a while now .And this year i did !! I called it HOOKED ON TYING theres a lot of work that goes in to some thing like this . I could write a small book on it .. Are you ready for that kind of commitment. I dont tie flys i bring them in by 10000

One day there will nothing the next an oder for 48 dozen. I just started tying .But even if i had been tying for years i could not keep up theres no way!!

[Flytyer14 0]

Thanks everyone. I was thinking more of just flying under the radar for now. I'm not going to be HUGE, I'll just be tying for several people in my area.

 

Tidewaterfly I was thinking more of selling them directly to people. I can't sell them to a shop cause there aren't any near my place.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Fyi I only had been tying flies for a year when I started Day5flies.com. I still have customers form my first year buying flies today. As far as covering costs. it is a good idea to know what the cost of materials is then factor how many flies you can tie an hour. I will not normally tie for less then 10 bucks an hour....

 

I have been tying for about 2 years now. You charge per hour?

 

Flytyer, I think what he's talking about is what I do. You decide how much you are willing to make per hour. You then figure how long it takes to tie a fly so you can come up with a "per fly" or more commonly a "per dozen" cost, then you approximate your material cost also. Speaking of which, when you start making your money, make sure you keep a separate checking account for your material costs or a savings for your profits. I found it helps to keep those separate.

There are flies that I can tie 30 of in an hour, others take 25 to 35 minutes each. The first flies may go for $15 to $20 per dozen, the latter, I get $75 per dozen.

Also, you'll have to find what is most comfortable or efficient for you. Some folks like me like the assembly line approach where you pull all materials for a set number of flies and have them ready, things such as weedguards, eyes, matched sets of feathers, marabou plumes, etc. Other tiers just go at it and pick up their materials and select them for each fly as they are tying it. When I time a fly, I usually break it down in steps and record each of the steps and then add it up to get total fly cost. It is helpful when tying a fly that has down time such as for glues or paint to dry or steps that can be done assembly line style. Also, I did it that way years ago when I realized I needed to hire a few tiers to help me fill orders but they were not experienced enough to handle the fine finishing aspects of the fly so I had then tie certain portions and I tied certain portions and was able to calculate how much to pay them.

Below is an exerpt from my spreadsheet to show you what I'm talking about. The tying steps without times are for other flies across the top of the spreadsheet that I may have times filled in for.

 

Kirk

 

These tying steps are not in order of tying the fly, they are just listed randomly as different flies along the top of the spreadsheet utilize different steps at different times in the procedure.

 

Time in minutes per 6

PROCEDURE "POPPER/SLIDER"

Bend hooks

Cut weedguards (mono) 1

Cut mylar

Melt mono ball

Tie-in weedguard 8

Tie-in firetail

Nail polish wraps 6

Tie or wrap body

Tie skirt/rubber 12

Select & pair up feathers 10

Tie-in tail or wing 24

Tie-in wool head

Comb-out head

Trim head

Put eyes/paint or marker

Tie off weedguard 6

Nail polish wraps

Tie lead, weedguard, & mylar

Trim back mylar

Shape body (5 min. epoxy)

Epoxy overcoat (1st) 10

Epoxy overcoat (2nd)

 

Turning cork to shape 8

Draw cutting line on bottom 6

Cut slot for hook 4

Sand hook slot w/folded sandpaper 3

Cut slant face/back 1.5

Fit/place hook in slot 2

Glue head to hook 5

Hand sand/round edges of head 8

Fill holes in cork 6

Hand sand body smooth 7

2 - coats primer 12

2- coats primary body color 12

Paint highlights & markings 12

Paint cup in face 5

Scrape paint off hook eye & shank 8

 

 

Total per 6, 180.5

Time per fly in minutes 30

[Guest Big E]

I think Day5 and Kirk have hit the nail on the head with this one. To be a legit business venture it will always boil down to how much money you can make in an hour. To calculate this, you'll need to know all the costs, ie taxes, materials, equipment to tie with, etc, but most of all is TIME. Sure you could tie flies and sell them but would you really make any money at it? A lot will depend on how long per fly it takes you and then you also have to calculate how much that one hook cost, how much the thread to tie that fly cost, how much that 6 inch piece of flash cost, etc. This will come after you have tied a bunch of flies and know approx how much each one costs to tie. From there you will figure out your profit which will convert over to $$$ per hour.

 

I'm sure production tiers will tell you that tying flies that have minimal amount of materials and are quick and easy will be the best money makers as opposed to intricate flies with a lot of materials. For example, I'll wager that Day5's best $$$ per hour comes from tying eggs as opposed to tying a, I dunno...some type of streamer.

 

I think there is a lot of things to take into consideration if you want to "make money" from production tying flies and its best to be aware of them now.

 

I for one couldn't do it. The fact is that you will have to tie a lot of one pattern for quite a few ties. I'm not into production tying but I'm sure people like Day5 crank out dozens of the same pattern every sitting. I for one couldn't possibly tie that many flies (dozens) in one sitting of one pattern. I think a good indication if you could would be to ask yourself if you crank out the flies for a swap in one sitting or do you take the whole time of the swap to get the dozen flies done.

 

Also, I've noticed that you've had some "issues" getting a starling skin. Anyone will tell you that it takes money to make money and the same is true for production tying flies. I'm just now getting to the point where I don't have to buy materials every time I join a swap. I think it would be a whole different matter in production tying and have seen production tyers buying black thread by the dozen count or hooks by the thousands. Buying in bulk will drive the cost down and without much profit margin, any savings has to be pursued.

 

AK Best has a book about production tying. I've never read it but I would if it would be a must read if I ever did give production tying a second thought.

[Flytyer14 0]

I was just thinking a name so i could be a little more official for the 7 or 8 fly fisherman in my area. Thanks and BigE I understand what you mean.

 

-Mark

[day5 0]

Big E is correct I can make 60 dollars an hour tying eggs. But I also have developed an injury form tying like that so I'm retired from tying eggs. (nasty tennis elbow)

 

Understand in a free market you are free to do what ever yo want. If people/the market want it, you will sell it.

 

name. How about "on the mark custom flies"?

[Flytyer14 0]

That's a good name idea,

 

Hey Oatka, are you being funny or making fun of me?

[Arkansas Mike 0]

Understand in a free market you are free to do what ever yo want. If people/the market want it, you will sell it.

 

 

Don't listen to Day5. He obviously doesn't know a thing about tying commercially.

I hear he even uses a rusty old HMH...and not even correctly. :hyst: :j_k:

Good luck with your venture, Mark.

 

 

 

Mike

[JSzymczyk 0]

I'd have to charge $5 for a woolly bugger to make minimum wage....

[Flytyer14 0]

LOL! Thanks mike!