Problems with deer hair

[bb123 0]

i have been fly tying for a couple of years now, and the only thing i cannot do well is deer hair flies. The problem im having is that i cannot get the hair to stay in place. I can make it very even, but it always slips on the hook shank. The thread i use is the gudebrod GX2.

Does anybody have any helpful advice on how to help me

[Flytyer14 0]

Make tight wraps. with a big thread gauge.

 

[Steve P 0]

Tight wraps with ROUND thread is best I use mostly orvis size G mono thread I think it's bigger than the .006 but I may be wrong. Keep at it I took almost a year and a half with deer hair before I figured it out.

 

 

Steve

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

a small but very useful tip is to make a half hitch knot after each time you add a clump of hair

[fly_fischa 0]

Hi BB123,

 

When you say you can't get the deer hair to stay in place what are you tying? Are you referring to spinning with Hair or hair wing dries, big difference.

 

Spinning with hair - Make sure you get the right/good hair, hollow slightly crinkly with at least 1.5inches of hollow hair before the tapered solid tips and color band transition begins.

Don't try spinning too much hair to begin with, work up to spinning bigger clumps.

 

Thread control/tension is everything in this game. Cut off a clump of hair > Clean the hair remove underfur/short hairs > Trim the solid tapered tips off so you end up with a even thickness clump/cylinder of hair > hold the hair parallel and on top of the hook > take 2.5 wraps around the middle of the hair clump > 1st wrap loose 2nd and .5th add tension allowing the thread to cinch down tight. Allow the hair to spin around the hook, if it does one complete revolution the hair is now only being held in place by 1 wrap. If it spins around the hook more than once it's likely it wont stay in place.

 

This vid of Kelly Galloup would be a good one to watch in order to learn how to tie a collar without spinning hair and how to spin hair for the head it also gives you a visual queue on how to select/choose good quality hair. If you want to skip to the hair part of the vid drag the slider to the 19 min mark.

 

Hope this helps, let us know how you go?

 

http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/29511785

 

 

Forgot to add if you want to get some great tying instruction vids you cant go past Chris Helm's titles, worth their weight in gold

[JSzymczyk 0]

Forgot to add if you want to get some great tying instruction vids you cant go past Chris Helm's titles, worth their weight in gold

 

 

I could teach you in about 5 minutes, but it can take hours to try to explain it in typed words. Watch some videos on the 'net and get one of Chris Helm's DVDs in which he shows how.

 

Make sure you are using the right kind of hair!! You didn't say what type of flies you are making, there is a big difference between a large tightly packed bass bug and a muddler head. Deer body hair is NOT all the same, and some patches of hair spin/stack/flare WAY better than others. With experience and training you will be able to tell good from ok from "this sucks!" before you buy it... mail order is a gamble--- over the decades, I've got a few outstanding pieces, mostly ok pieces, and a few that were just crap. If you buy deer hair from Helm, it will be GREAT to SUPERB in quality.

 

Use 100 denier or 200 denier GSP thread. I've used every type of thread for deer hair flies, but there is just no reason any more to use anything but GSP for spinning or stacking deer hair. People are going to bitch about that statement and say they use other types and they do fine, and I'm sure they do (and so have I), but I stand by my word. It's expensive thread, but you only use it for the deer hair part of the fly, and a spool of it lasts a LONG LONG time. Kevlar is HORRIBLE, and nylon - even heavy "G" nylon - has more stretch. GSP is the best.

 

A secret of ultra-durable deer hair flies is gluing the hair to the shank... after completely trimming the fly, thinned flexament is applied on the bottom of the deer hair, where it is closest to the hook shank. This turns a durable, well tied fly into an extremely tough fly.

 

If you're having trouble spinning hair, DON'T SPIN IT! Stack it, one clump on the top, one clump on the bottom. Stacking is also the best (only?) way to make cool spots and other markings.

[smalliestalker 0]

Everything said here is excellent...One thing I noticed that no one mentioned.....When you are getting ready to spin and or stack a clump of hair....It makes the fly very durable and stops the hair from spinning in place if you lay down some thread base before you place the hair down....I'm sure this statement will cause controversy...however....I make a lot of deer hair bugs......a lot....I have caught close to 50 fish on some of my bugs before they were retired....Make 4 or 5 wraps foward, then a couple back so that the thread is in the middle of the wraps.....Then place your hair and tighten down....pack it back, bring you thread forward...laya couple more wraps down, pack it again, then glue.....Makes for an incredibly solid fly....hope that helps...

[Bruce Derington 0]

Everything said here is excellent...One thing I noticed that no one mentioned.....When you are getting ready to spin and or stack a clump of hair....It makes the fly very durable and stops the hair from spinning in place if you lay down some thread base before you place the hair down....I'm sure this statement will cause controversy...however....I make a lot of deer hair bugs......a lot....I have caught close to 50 fish on some of my bugs before they were retired....Make 4 or 5 wraps foward, then a couple back so that the thread is in the middle of the wraps.....Then place your hair and tighten down....pack it back, bring you thread forward...laya couple more wraps down, pack it again, then glue.....Makes for an incredibly solid fly....hope that helps...

 

 

yeah, what he said

[Flytyer14 0]

Everything said here is excellent...One thing I noticed that no one mentioned.....When you are getting ready to spin and or stack a clump of hair....It makes the fly very durable and stops the hair from spinning in place if you lay down some thread base before you place the hair down....I'm sure this statement will cause controversy...however....I make a lot of deer hair bugs......a lot....I have caught close to 50 fish on some of my bugs before they were retired....Make 4 or 5 wraps foward, then a couple back so that the thread is in the middle of the wraps.....Then place your hair and tighten down....pack it back, bring you thread forward...laya couple more wraps down, pack it again, then glue.....Makes for an incredibly solid fly....hope that helps...

 

The great Pat has spoken!

[donboake 0]

rap loose then tighten always works for me!

[Hairstacker 0]

bb123, you've received some great advice so far.

 

I think it would help, though, to understand the details of how you're tying these flies. For example:

 

Are you laying a foundation of thread as suggested?

Are you spinning/stacking really large bundles of hair?

Are you adding tight, securing wraps after stacking/spinning the hair?

Are you adding thread wraps between bundles?

Are you adding half-hitches between bundles?

Are you adding superglue to those half-hitches?

Are you packing as hard as possible both the hair and thread wraps/half-hitches between bundles?

 

You don't necessarily have to do every one of these things (e.g., go to smaller bundles, use superglue between bundles, etc.) but all of these factors in combination are contributing to why your hair is not secure and spinning around the hook. I would closely examine and consider how you're currently tackling each one.

 

-- Mike