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freddyg

rope dubbing

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phg,

Is that the same technique as a dubbing noodle? Second to last technique here.

Brian

 

basically the same

 

heres another description from the internet

 

DUBBING WITH A TWIST

 

(by Dave Spiller of the South Sound Fly Fishers of Olympia, WA)

 

Polly Rosborough wrote a book called "Fuzzy Nymphs" in 1965. In this book Rosborough wrote about nearly forgotten tying techniques including the dubbing noodle. I have also found the technique described in other books including "Modern Fly Dressing

for the Practical Angler" by Paul Jorgensen (1978).

 

The dubbing noodle technique produces a segmented body without the need for ribbing. Picking out some of the dubbing can change the texture. I use an exacto saw blade to roughen the body as needed.

 

This technique also makes very durable flies, almost indestructible.

Procedure:

 

Step 1) Select a dubbing material to match the texture of the natural you want to imitate. Use a fine-grained dubbing with few guard hairs for a smooth body. Use a course material for rough bodies.

 

Step 2) Place a small amount of the dubbing on the palm of your hand, and rub your hands together. You should be able to make a small piece of yarn or dubbing noodle. With ractice, you will be able to taper the yarn to match your needs.

 

Step 3) Tie one end of the noodle to the hook with the tying thread.

 

Step 4) Make a dubbing loop and place the noodle in the loop. Tinsel or wire can be added for flash.

 

Step 5) Twist the dubbing loop and noodle. A tight twist will make a more segmented body.

 

Step 6) Wrap the dubbing loop and noodle around the hook. Make additional twists as you wrap the body.

 

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flytire

 

Your account is similar to Rosborough's technique, but with one major difference: While Polly often did reinforce his "noodle" with a thread loop, the fur was not placed in the loop. In his words:

 

"Slide the noodle down alongside the loop enough so that when you start to twist them together the loop will be inside the twisted noodle and not visible."

 

The Dette's used a similar technique using a single length of thread.

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flytire

 

Your account is similar to Rosborough's technique, but with one major difference: While Polly often did reinforce his "noodle" with a thread loop, the fur was not placed in the loop. In his words:

 

"Slide the noodle down alongside the loop enough so that when you start to twist them together the loop will be inside the twisted noodle and not visible."

 

The Dette's used a similar technique using a single length of thread.

 

yup thats what it says in pollys book

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fellow tiers thanks for all the information. I may need to read it a few times to get it digested. Seems like a technique that is not well understood or used by a large number of folks. many thanks freddy g

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does anybody have information on rope dubbing? I have found many hits but no information on the "how to". I have found a dvd but before I buy it I wanted to know if you use it and how you like it. thanks freddyg

 

Freddy,

I found this series and joined the list so I could answer your questions directly. I've been using versions of my technique for over 25 years- so long I can't remember. It became public when I used it around 2000 at a show in Denver to demonstrate an easy way to dub ice dub in a fraction of the time and with perfect bullet-proof results down to size 28. It was well accepted and they sold a lot of ice dub that day.

 

I was a member of the VFB (Virtual Fly Box) at the time so Byard and I worked up a pictoral instruction for the technique. Posting videos was not done in 2001. Later he added two small, short videos, but they were too small and quick to tell the whole story. Byard had never seen the technique.

 

I experienced the gamut of comments over the next 8 years while demonstrating the technique at shows across the country. Very often I heard that it was Polly's technique, so I pulled out his book and showed them that it was not- by a long shot- and the advantages of my way of dubbing. I heard many naysayers, both world-class professional and amature, but after watching me do it, they all agreed that what I was doing was different from anything they had seen. See the reviews on my web site for some of these. Some tiers got part of it, but not all, so they didn't get the full benefits.

 

I could write a book, but as Nick said, it's too easy to miss the motions with photos and text. Many times I was asked for a video after demonstrating a dozen flies in just a few minutes. I didn't have one, as I was demonstrating the technique for free to anyone who wanted it. I looked into doing a 'proper' video and the production costs would be about $3000, so I decided to do it, just to get it all down on video if I were to suddenly leave this place.

 

I'm not going to re-write all of the pros of my technique, because they are on my website, along with reviews from buyers and many photos on the sample pages.

 

There are some misunderatandings still being promulgated by well-known professional tiers. One of them is that the fly will automatically come out segmented. The answer is - 'not if you don't want it to'. Another is- 'yours always starts with a dubbing bump'. My answer is 'not if you do it so it doesn't make a bump'. The technique is totally adjustable for just about any material and size fly, for any look you want, using any dubbing material and then some- no wax, tools, or loops required. You can use wax and tools if you want, but they are just not necessary. You can build dubbing brushes on wire as you tie, or emulate a touch-dub body like the English like. Rope-dubbing is the technique- you are still the designer of your patterns using it. It gives you a much broader range of tying and increases your range of dubbed bodies by many many times. I'm still discovering new ways to apply it, making beautiful fish-catching but simple flies.

 

I have uncounted tying instructors teaching my dubbing technique- I don't keep track and I don't mind- even if I lose DVD sales. It wasn't my intention to make money off the method, as I gave it away for 10 years in person- actually, I paid out of pocket to get to the shows to be a demo tier, so it cost me to teach it for free. The DVD was a way to give tiers a video tutorial that they could take home and study over and over- 24 sequences (not patterns). It also gave me a little income to offset the costs of getting to the various shows around the country, but it's far from covering them, along with the expense of producing the video.

 

Denny Conrad reviewed the DVD on FAOL if you want more background. He too had seen it in person but benefitted immensely from having the DVD to watch over and over. I have not had a single negative comment from anyone who has purchased the DVD. Yes, there has been web mis-information, but it's not the technique's fault, but the lack of understanding and practice. Granted, the methods overturns decades of traditional dubbing methods (and voids the tools needed), and well-known tiers such as Dick Talluer and I talked about this. He advice was 'full steam ahead'. Al Beatty just wrote a review for Fly TYer Magazine. If anyone would have seen the technique before, he would have.

 

Jack Dennis will also be handling my DVD soon, and he loves the technique. He owns the #1 fly-tying DVD of all time, so I think he would spot a duplication method. It's also on Sharon Butterfield's MyFlies.com. Rope-dubbing DVD#2 is planned, but not started. It will have more variables of the technique, how to incorporate the technique into different patterns, salt-water applications, and much more- a 4 hour DVD is planned. I'm waiting to see if DVD #1 is successful enough to warrent DVD#2. I have had many requests for it from DVD#1 buyers, but the negative publicity from people who don't understand the technique is holding it off many potential buyers. Things are coming around as the technique gets around and gets incorporated into tiers' methods, but it makes for slow going when there's uninformed reviews about it.

 

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask questions that you have after reading the 'all-about it' portion on my website.

 

Very Best Regards,

Don Ordes

Fantasy Fly Co.

www.fantasyFlies.com

 

 

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//..//

Another is- 'yours always starts with a dubbing bump'. My answer is 'not if you do it so it doesn't make a bump'. The technique is totally adjustable for just about any material and size fly, for any look you want, using any dubbing material and then some- no wax, tools, or loops required. You can use wax and tools if you want, but they are just not necessary.

//..//

I'd still like to add one thing to that. In my own experience, wax does more harm than good when rope dubbing. The better grip the material gets of the thread, the more the thread will twist together with it. The thinnest part of the noodle will be just by the hook (since you're aiming for a tapered body). That will make this part easier to twist than the thicker part... at the same time as there's nothing "twistable" on the other side that will share the stress. There you will soon have the weakest spot of the thread. Risk of thread snapping decreases a lot(!) the longer the material can "slide around" the thread while twisting... in my experience.

 

To confirm what Don says with 'not if you don't do it so it doesn't make a bump' and that it's 'adjustable for just about any material and size fly', I'm showing one of his own from the VFB Tiny Fly Swap... a size #32 rope dubbed Adams:

 

post-15497-1295825004_thumb.jpg

 

/Nick

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Nick is correct about the wax. When one gets the reason how and why the rope-dub works, adherence of the dubbing to the thread is counter-productive. That's the difference of this method from any other. The dubbing locks on itself, not the thread. And it's never locked to the thread (or in the thread) if done properly so will slide up and down the thread easily. That's why I prefer light mono to tie and dub on, because it is so slick and the dubing does not adhere to it. Same thing with wire, bite tippet, spider line, etc.

 

Waxes my serve to increase friction with some dubbings, and dull others, while matting others. Using some wax may help beginners to manage spikey fur dubbing as the rope starts, but once you get a little practice, you won't need it. And like Nick says, if it increases friction to the thread, it's counter-productive.

 

Round threads and wires are best to rope-dub on, but I have successfully roped on flat threads. Depending on the size fly I'm tying, I run the gamut of 1# test mono for #28's up to 30# test mono for salt-water flies. It's easy to tie on and the fly becomes tooth-proof. For really toothy salt-water flies, such as for bluefish, kings and cudas, I dub on stainless steel bite tippet as a tag, not the tying thread, which is spider-line.

 

DonO

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Being so focused on total disaster (snapping thread) I forgot counter-productive (lost advantages): One of the good sides of this techniques is the just the fact that the dubbing easily slides up and down the thread. It makes it easy to shape the rope while making it. Thinner, thicker... just by pushing it up and down. Or maybe not happy with it on the hook? Just unwrap it and reshape it and try again for a thinner body... or a thicker. But this is not something where wax will be helpful.

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OK, I might some day be able to afford the video and would like to but for now it's not in the budget. I have a wife and two kids one of which is quadraplegic and only part time work due to the economy, etc....blah, blah, blah....

 

Can anyone fill us in on the basics of the technique without it costing me $45. It sounds like it is well worth knowing. I'm just not seeing the how to info.....

 

The link in Post #13 here is pretty good but there are a lot of missing pictures as they have been moved or deleted from the original locations. I'll have to play around...

 

Thanks for any help.

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