Question for all saltwater fly tiers out there.

[Terry Dunford 0]

I'll be going to Florida and will be staying at Cedar Key for 2 months in November and December. I know that the redfish and sea trout will be bitting. I also know that they are eating the pinfish and finger mullets. My question to you saltwater fly tiers is this: What colors of EP, Kinky Fiber, Angel Hair, etc... to do go through the most when tying patterns that are producers in Florida waters? I'll be stocking up and really need to know the right colors to buy. Thanks for any help you could provide.

 

Terry Dunford, publisher, webmaster

http://flytyingclub.org

[agn54 0]

For colors it's hard to beat chartreuse. One of my favorites is electric chicken (chartreuse and pink). I also like all white, white with a redhead, pink over white, grey or dun over white (mullet colors), chartreuse over white or yellow, and olive over white or yellow. All black crab patterns can work well around oyster bars s do good shrimp patterns with tan craft fur and rootbeer estaz

[Terry Dunford 0]

For colors it's hard to beat chartreuse. One of my favorites is electric chicken (chartreuse and pink). I also like all white, white with a redhead, pink over white, grey or dun over white (mullet colors), chartreuse over white or yellow, and olive over white or yellow. All black crab patterns can work well around oyster bars s do good shrimp patterns with tan craft fur and rootbeer estaz

 

Right on! That is exactly the kind of information I was seeking! Thank you very much! I have rootbeer cactus chenille, will that do the job well enough or do you recommend that I get the estaz? Also, do you prefer kinky fiber or EP?

[tidewaterfly 0]

Terry, I also use the same colors that agn54 listed, he nailed it really well! They're pretty basic for most any coastal inshore saltwater species, and most any place. Rootbeer & copper is always a good choice for Redfish, and that Electric Chicken combo is good all along the Atlantic coast for seatrout. If you carry a variety of sizes in colors that mimic those prey species & some attractor patterns in the colors he listed, you should have it covered pretty well. I'm sure someone else may have another favorite color or combination too. Preferences will vary. Just don't over think it & complicate things, simple patterns are usually more productive.

 

I still prefer bucktail & other natural materials for most baitfish patterns, but am slowly getting more involved with using synthetics. In a another recent thread, it was noted that Congo hair from Fly Tyers Dungeon is the same material as EP fibers, and much less expensive. There are so many different & similar synthetics now, I can't say I have a preference yet for one over another. Although I really like tying with Polar Flash. Great stuff by itself, or combined with other materials!

 

As far as estaz versus cactus chenille, same stuff basically, and I use both, but to me it seems estaz is more durable than some cactus chenille I've used, but I don't feel the fish care either way.

[Terry Dunford 0]

Terry, I also use the same colors that agn54 listed, he nailed it really well! They're pretty basic for most any coastal inshore saltwater species, and most any place. Rootbeer & copper is always a good choice for Redfish, and that Electric Chicken combo is good all along the Atlantic coast for seatrout. If you carry a variety of sizes in colors that mimic those prey species & some attractor patterns in the colors he listed, you should have it covered pretty well. I'm sure someone else may have another favorite color or combination too. Preferences will vary. Just don't over think it & complicate things, simple patterns are usually more productive.

 

I still prefer bucktail & other natural materials for most baitfish patterns, but am slowly getting more involved with using synthetics. In a another recent thread, it was noted that Congo hair from Fly Tyers Dungeon is the same material as EP fibers, and much less expensive. There are so many different & similar synthetics now, I can't say I have a preference yet for one over another. Although I really like tying with Polar Flash. Great stuff by itself, or combined with other materials!

 

As far as estaz versus cactus chenille, same stuff basically, and I use both, but to me it seems estaz is more durable than some cactus chenille I've used, but I don't feel the fish care either way.

 

Thank you very much for that information. You're going to end up saving me a lot of money letting me know about the Congo. Had no idea, and that is the kind of information I'm looking, so thank you very much for that. I think I'll get some estaz as I have not used it before, just the cactus chenille. Thanks again, that was great insight!!!

[tidewaterfly 0]

I also was not aware that Congo hair was the same as EP fiber until that post. You can thank Steve P for that info, it was his post that mentioned it. :thumbsup:

 

I've been very reluctant to buy EP fibers because of the high price.

[NJ All Day 0]

I just have a note to give you abou Congo hair or anything from Fly Tyers Dungeon. Order it a couple weeks before you need it. It will take some time to get your order since be is a lone person running the site.

[Steve P 0]

I just have a note to give you abou Congo hair or anything from Fly Tyers Dungeon. Order it a couple weeks before you need it. It will take some time to get your order since be is a lone person running the site.

 

 

I will back up what NJ said above here. As someone that does tie for salty fishing (but as of yet has not been there done that) I tend to go through a lot of pink, chartreuse, olive, yellow, white or polar bear colors. Also on the note of EP vs. Congo Hair....... same stuff in my opinion and for the price I'l gladly wait a little bit for it. If you need something in a rush though I would get the order ready to place then just give him a call and talk to him a bit, he's always been more than willing to rush an order for me if I need one.

 

Steve

 

[Terry Dunford 0]

I just have a note to give you abou Congo hair or anything from Fly Tyers Dungeon. Order it a couple weeks before you need it. It will take some time to get your order since be is a lone person running the site.

 

 

I will back up what NJ said above here. As someone that does tie for salty fishing (but as of yet has not been there done that) I tend to go through a lot of pink, chartreuse, olive, yellow, white or polar bear colors. Also on the note of EP vs. Congo Hair....... same stuff in my opinion and for the price I'l gladly wait a little bit for it. If you need something in a rush though I would get the order ready to place then just give him a call and talk to him a bit, he's always been more than willing to rush an order for me if I need one.

 

Steve

 

Thank you, Steve! Very valuable information there! I'm definitely going to get his full box of 40 Congo hair colors for $40! What a deal! Thanks again!

[Terry Dunford 0]

Hey guys while I've got you here, I've got one more related question. As far as the hooks for the saltwater flies, I just wanted to make sure I have all the different kinds of hooks I'll need. Here's what I've currently got related to saltwater hooks or hooks of pretty similar style:

 

Daiichi 2546 Saltwater Hook - size 3/0

Daiichi 2546 Saltwater Hook - size 1/0

Daiichi 2546 Saltwater Hook - size 2

Dai-Riki #950 – Size 12 Bonefish Hook, Standard Length

Got all the Alec Jackson’s and B10S’s

 

Am I missing anything?

 

Thanks for your help.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Terry, for your trip, what you have is fine. You may wish to add a size 4, 2546. Size 4 is a very popular size for flats type fishing, but it really depends on the area.

 

I use a lot of different hooks, still use some of the old Mustad hooks too. I fish a lot in brackish water, and for many of the Striped Bass & LM bass flies I tie, I use VMC 9255 tinned hooks. I like them better than stainless because they're less expensive, sharper & stay sharper longer, and don't really rust much with the tinned finish. The salt content in these waters is not that high like it might be in ocean water. Besides, I lose a fair amount of flies, so stainless gets very expensive.

 

The only hook you might want to add is a long shank streamer hook, something like the Mustad S74SNP-SS which replaced the old 34011.

 

The only thing I have a question about is that Dai-Riki #950 – Size 12 Bonefish Hook. Why a size 12? Maybe I'm not up to date on things, but when I tied commercially, size 8 was the smallest size I tied on for Bonefish or anything else.

[Terry Dunford 0]

Terry, for your trip, what you have is fine. You may wish to add a size 4, 2546. Size 4 is a very popular size for flats type fishing, but it really depends on the area.

 

I use a lot of different hooks, still use some of the old Mustad hooks too. I fish a lot in brackish water, and for many of the Striped Bass & LM bass flies I tie, I use VMC 9255 tinned hooks. I like them better than stainless because they're less expensive, sharper & stay sharper longer, and don't really rust much with the tinned finish. The salt content in these waters is not that high like it might be in ocean water. Besides, I lose a fair amount of flies, so stainless gets very expensive.

 

The only hook you might want to add is a long shank streamer hook, something like the Mustad S74SNP-SS which replaced the old 34011.

 

The only thing I have a question about is that Dai-Riki #950 – Size 12 Bonefish Hook. Why a size 12? Maybe I'm not up to date on things, but when I tied commercially, size 8 was the smallest size I tied on for Bonefish or anything else.

 

Yes, I asked the same question about the Size 12 bonefish hook too when a friend of mine gave me them. I haven't tied anything with them and personally think they're too small for any type of saltwater fishing unless your after tillapia or something.

 

Thanks for the info on the VMC 9255. If I were to get one size of those, which size should I get for florida saltwater fishing? I just found out from my wife that we'll be staying there from October to March all up and down florida in our new RV if that helps answer my question.

 

As far as the streamer hooks, here's what I've got now:

 

Dai-riki 700 – Size 4 Streamer Hook, 1X Strong, 4X Long

Dai-riki 700 – Size 8 Streamer Hook, 1X Strong, 4X Long

Dai-riki 700 – Size 10 Streamer Hook, 1X Strong, 4X Long

Dai-riki 700 – Size 12 Streamer Hook, 1X Strong, 4X Long

Dai-riki 700 – Size 1 Streamer Hook, 1X Strong, 4X Long

Dai-riki 700 – Size 14 Streamer Hook, 1X Strong, 4X Long

Dai-riki 700 – Size 16 Streamer Hook, 1X Strong, 4X Long

Lightening Strike Size 4 Streamer Hook, 2X Heavy, 6X Long

And Mustad 3366's

 

Sufficient or no?

[Terry Dunford 0]

Also, regarding the Daiichi 2546 size 4, I have access to get the Tiemco 811S hook discounted, and I believe they are pretty similar. I was wondering if their sizes are similar too, or should I get a Tiemco 811S size 2 or something so it will be the same as a 2546 Size 4?

[tidewaterfly 0]

Terry, I'm not 100% certain that 811S is exactly the same size as the 2546, but think it may be the same. I may have some of both, so if I do I'll check it out for you. However, those 811S hooks are a good hook to tie on, so if you're getting them at a good price, then they're certainly worth having.

 

Those streamer hooks you have are better for freshwater, as they're all bronzed hooks.

 

Some saltwater patterns are better tied on a longer hook. I like to tie bendback style flies on long shank hooks, and sometimes tie Clouser Minnows & Deceivers on them. Some shrimp patterns are better tied on them IMO.

 

That Mustad S74SNP-SS hook is a stainless hook, part of the Signature Series, which are good hooks for the price. Some folks feel Mustad is not as good as other brands. Opinions vary. The Signature hooks are a lot better than their older hooks, and I've never had any issues with them.

 

If there's a chance you may fish for large Tarpon, then you'll want Owner AKI hooks. They're not stainless, but are super strong & super sharp. They're also very expensive, but worth it considering you may be fishing for the trophy of a lifetime. Otherwise, for baby Tarpon, those VMC 9255's will be fine. Another good, and relatively less expensive alternative for baby Tarpon flies is Eagle Claw 254 CAT hooks which is the the tinned version. The 254SS versions are stainless. When you can find them Eagle Claw L067 hooks are also suitable for Tarpon, but not as strong as the Owner hooks. That L067 was originally sold as a "Billy Pate Tarpon Hook"!

 

Hope this answers your questions!

 

[Terry Dunford 0]

Terry, I'm not 100% certain that 811S is exactly the same size as the 2546, but think it may be the same. I may have some of both, so if I do I'll check it out for you. However, those 811S hooks are a good hook to tie on, so if you're getting them at a good price, then they're certainly worth having.

 

Those streamer hooks you have are better for freshwater, as they're all bronzed hooks.

 

Some saltwater patterns are better tied on a longer hook. I like to tie bendback style flies on long shank hooks, and sometimes tie Clouser Minnows & Deceivers on them. Some shrimp patterns are better tied on them IMO.

 

That Mustad S74SNP-SS hook is a stainless hook, part of the Signature Series, which are good hooks for the price. Some folks feel Mustad is not as good as other brands. Opinions vary. The Signature hooks are a lot better than their older hooks, and I've never had any issues with them.

 

If there's a chance you may fish for large Tarpon, then you'll want Owner AKI hooks. They're not stainless, but are super strong & super sharp. They're also very expensive, but worth it considering you may be fishing for the trophy of a lifetime. Otherwise, for baby Tarpon, those VMC 9255's will be fine. Another good, and relatively less expensive alternative for baby Tarpon flies is Eagle Claw 254 CAT hooks which is the the tinned version. The 254SS versions are stainless. When you can find them Eagle Claw L067 hooks are also suitable for Tarpon, but not as strong as the Owner hooks. That L067 was originally sold as a "Billy Pate Tarpon Hook"!

 

Hope this answers your questions!

 

You certainly did answer my questions! Thank you!!!!! I've read many of your posts and I know that you know what you're talking about so I know that I won't have to waist my time in making sure that your answers are correct, so thank you for saving me a lot of time and heartache, and I'll know that I will have the right flies to catch fish in Florida. Thank you to all who contributed to my questions. I received some great answers and I think that this forum is awesome! Thanks again, my friends. Time to go shopping and tie some flies!