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Terry Dunford

Question for all saltwater fly tiers out there.

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Terry, for the flats here in Florida I only use a floating weight forward line. Especially for the west coast of Florida, it is all I have ever needed. You will usually be fishing in water only a few feet deep, but even on deeper flats up to 6 feet the current is usually not too strong so a weighted fly can get down. During the months you will be here the fish will be in shallower in the creek mouths and then up in the creeks and rivers as the winter approaches. If you go further south where there are snook, a sinking tip or full sinking line is good for targeting snook on the beach, but the snook are only on the beaches during the late Spring and Summer, not really during the time you will be here. The same applies for the inlets, a sinking line is good for the heavy currents but the snook don't really move in until the warmer months, but there are many other species available so having a sinking tip line handy may be helpful. I also like to use some sort of tropical line like Rio tropical or other brand since I have had issues with m line getting sticky in the heat, but since you won't be here in the summer that will not be a problem. I am sure others will have other opinions on floating or sinking line. Also, 8 and 9 wt are really the perfect all around lines for down here.

 

As far as the pontoons go, if they are inflatable, be VERY careful of oyster bars, they will rip a whole in rubber or vinyl floats. Especially at Cedar Key, there are tons of them and that's where the reds tend to be so you will want to maneuver around them. The water can tend to be dark and murky around them so be aware of the bottom. My advise is to go out at dead low tide even if on foot from the edge of the water, and look around to get an idea of where the bars and structure will be once the tide comes in.

Hope this helps,

 

Andy

 

Hello, Andy. Thank you for that great information. I was hoping to find a Florida flats fly fisherman to give that exact kind of tips, so thank you for that. I've been talking to a friend and he says that I should really be using a kayak on the flats because I can get around faster. I told him that I have trolling motors on my pontoons and will probably have 2 large batteries on board. I was checking online and I see some really good, affordable inflatable kayaks. Kayaks will probably be a lot harder to rip, right? I'm sure you're going to recommend a non-inflatable or rent one which is probably what I'll do. I've never fly fished from a kayak. I have a lot of friends that do, but I've never tried it. It's not hard at all on my pontoon, but your a lot higher off the water and I have a line basket on the pontoon, plus I really like the trolling motor. I've been on lakes with it for 3 to 4 hours and the battery lasted fine. I'll just have to see how it goes. I do have a good pair of waders and boots and can always do that. Will it be difficult to wade out near Cedar Key because of the oyster bars or will there be noticeable sand/grass fingers that I could navigate through?

 

I have never seen an inflatable kayak but fishing from one is not difficult, although I wade more often since all I have is a crappy sit-inside kayak that I'm not real fond of. Your pontoon would be fine for the grass flats, especially with a trolling motor. The danger at Cedar Key is if you go inland where there are tons of oyster bars. If you decide to take the pontoon out here, go out and look around at low tide so you can get an idea of the lay of the land, and then when on the pontoon move slowly and carefully. I have tried wading this area before but it is pretty difficult to move around because the mud is really soft. I have walked and waded across oyster bars many times with just well soled sneakers and never cut myself, it's the soft mud between the bars that I find difficult if I'm trying to go a fair distance.

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Terry, for the flats here in Florida I only use a floating weight forward line. Especially for the west coast of Florida, it is all I have ever needed. You will usually be fishing in water only a few feet deep, but even on deeper flats up to 6 feet the current is usually not too strong so a weighted fly can get down. During the months you will be here the fish will be in shallower in the creek mouths and then up in the creeks and rivers as the winter approaches. If you go further south where there are snook, a sinking tip or full sinking line is good for targeting snook on the beach, but the snook are only on the beaches during the late Spring and Summer, not really during the time you will be here. The same applies for the inlets, a sinking line is good for the heavy currents but the snook don't really move in until the warmer months, but there are many other species available so having a sinking tip line handy may be helpful. I also like to use some sort of tropical line like Rio tropical or other brand since I have had issues with m line getting sticky in the heat, but since you won't be here in the summer that will not be a problem. I am sure others will have other opinions on floating or sinking line. Also, 8 and 9 wt are really the perfect all around lines for down here.

 

As far as the pontoons go, if they are inflatable, be VERY careful of oyster bars, they will rip a whole in rubber or vinyl floats. Especially at Cedar Key, there are tons of them and that's where the reds tend to be so you will want to maneuver around them. The water can tend to be dark and murky around them so be aware of the bottom. My advise is to go out at dead low tide even if on foot from the edge of the water, and look around to get an idea of where the bars and structure will be once the tide comes in.

Hope this helps,

 

Andy

 

Hello, Andy. Thank you for that great information. I was hoping to find a Florida flats fly fisherman to give that exact kind of tips, so thank you for that. I've been talking to a friend and he says that I should really be using a kayak on the flats because I can get around faster. I told him that I have trolling motors on my pontoons and will probably have 2 large batteries on board. I was checking online and I see some really good, affordable inflatable kayaks. Kayaks will probably be a lot harder to rip, right? I'm sure you're going to recommend a non-inflatable or rent one which is probably what I'll do. I've never fly fished from a kayak. I have a lot of friends that do, but I've never tried it. It's not hard at all on my pontoon, but your a lot higher off the water and I have a line basket on the pontoon, plus I really like the trolling motor. I've been on lakes with it for 3 to 4 hours and the battery lasted fine. I'll just have to see how it goes. I do have a good pair of waders and boots and can always do that. Will it be difficult to wade out near Cedar Key because of the oyster bars or will there be noticeable sand/grass fingers that I could navigate through?

 

I have never seen an inflatable kayak but fishing from one is not difficult, although I wade more often since all I have is a crappy sit-inside kayak that I'm not real fond of. Your pontoon would be fine for the grass flats, especially with a trolling motor. The danger at Cedar Key is if you go inland where there are tons of oyster bars. If you decide to take the pontoon out here, go out and look around at low tide so you can get an idea of the lay of the land, and then when on the pontoon move slowly and carefully. I have tried wading this area before but it is pretty difficult to move around because the mud is really soft. I have walked and waded across oyster bars many times with just well soled sneakers and never cut myself, it's the soft mud between the bars that I find difficult if I'm trying to go a fair distance.

 

Thank you!!! That is the kind of information I'm especially looking for. You probably just saved me a rough time with that info, so thank you. One thing I also don't like is wading in mud, and it could get dangerous too! What fly patterns you use out there because I've just about got all the supplies and will begin tying here shortly?

 

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Terry, from what I understand a boat, canoe, kayak, ect. under 16' that you

paddle, row, pushpole, does not need to be registered. When you put a gas

engin, or electric motor on it ,it does. If your pontoon boat is registered in

your state, you should be good to go. Some of the other people on here may

be able to give more info. You may know this already, but I thought I would

say somthing anyway. Hope you catch alot!!!! :D

 

Henry F.

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I use a lot of various baitfish and crab/shrimp patterns: clouser and deceiver style flies, polar fiber minnows, and EP style flies although lately I have preferred them with Flashblend. I also like zonker style or woolhead baitfish flies. My go-to trout fly is this here only I now prefer it with a chartreuse head. I really like bendback flies, they are weedless and don't get hung up on the oyster as much. For shrimp flies I like the Borski craft fur shrimp, but there are a lot of great shrimp and crab patterns out there. I also love poppers and gurglers for topwater. Pretty much anything with arctic fox or finn r accoon and you can't go wrong. Like Capt. Bob said, it is bet to add a weed guard. lthoug the time you will be here there is usually not too much grass on the surface like in summer, it is best to have one. You can always clip it off but can't put it on out there.

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I use a lot of various baitfish and crab/shrimp patterns: clouser and deceiver style flies, polar fiber minnows, and EP style flies although lately I have preferred them with Flashblend. I also like zonker style or woolhead baitfish flies. My go-to trout fly is this here only I now prefer it with a chartreuse head. I really like bendback flies, they are weedless and don't get hung up on the oyster as much. For shrimp flies I like the Borski craft fur shrimp, but there are a lot of great shrimp and crab patterns out there. I also love poppers and gurglers for topwater. Pretty much anything with arctic fox or finn r accoon and you can't go wrong. Like Capt. Bob said, it is bet to add a weed guard. lthoug the time you will be here there is usually not too much grass on the surface like in summer, it is best to have one. You can always clip it off but can't put it on out there.

 

Hey Andy, thank you. Looks like I've got some tying to do now! I saw on that pattern that you provided the link to that for the hook you listed Mustad 3407 DT. I've seen that hook before on a different pattern and thought that there was a missing "0" in 3407 making it a 34007. I did some research and found out that I was mistaken and that there really is a 3407. So thanks for making that clear for me. I'll have to do some further research and find out what hooks are similar because I don't have that particular hook, but have ordered most of all the recommended hooks from this long post, so hopefully one of the other one's will work. Thanks again for that list of fly patterns.

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Terry, from what I understand a boat, canoe, kayak, ect. under 16' that you

paddle, row, pushpole, does not need to be registered. When you put a gas

engin, or electric motor on it ,it does. If your pontoon boat is registered in

your state, you should be good to go. Some of the other people on here may

be able to give more info. You may know this already, but I thought I would

say somthing anyway. Hope you catch alot!!!! :D

 

Henry F.

 

Hello Henry,

 

Will I have to register my inflatable pontoon even if it has a battery powered trolling motor? Here is a photo of my pontoon (I have 2 of them):

 

ColoradoPontoonBoat.jpg

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Hey Guys, talkin' about Cedar Key, I occassionally like to keep some of my good sized catches, and I was wondering how reds are off the grill?

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Let's see if I can answer one or two of the questions you sent my way... As far as reds go they're in season all year, statewide, one per person between 18 and 27" (at max length that's a red that might weigh in the 7 to 8lb range, the smaller, 18 to 22" fish are the best eating, and not in short supply anywhere). For full particulars on licensing, bag limits, etc. go to myfwc.com (you can even buy a fishing license on-line now...). As far as fly patterns I wouldn't attempt to advise you since Cedar Key is about 300 miles from my area, and I've only had one guide from that area place just a small tarpon order with me... Contact your nearest fly shop to Cedar Key for patterns.

 

As far as top spots around the state I'm partial to Everglades National Park and it's where I am if working a daytime booking (more about that later). There are camping and RV sites at both Flamingo (due north of Islamorada across the water, 30 miles), the center of the Park, and Everglades City/Chokoloskee, the western edge of the Park (30 miles east of Naples, Chokoloskee is an island right next to Everglades City, both are just villages - but have a plenty of motels, restaurants, etc. to go with camping, RV and otherwise. Both locations offer world class jungle-type fishing year 'round (this week I've had anglers tossing flies at tarpon up to and over 100lbs in small rivers that are less than 100' wide).

 

Both Flamingo and Everglades City have canoe and kayak rentals (and also things like gators and crocs at boat ramps). This not an area to go for a swim on any day far too many sharks of every size and persuasion... Contact the Visitor's Center if you're interested they'll have a lot of info to send your way.... (305)242-7700. That whole area is a lot more like Costa Rica than America (but without the monkeys and parrots...).

 

If you're in the Miami area, along with blue water and flats fishing (from Key Biscayne south toward the Keys...), the city also has some outstanding baby tarpon action every night in winter, spring and summer... All the bridges that connect Miami to Miami Beach are feeding stations at night for tarpon in the 20-40lb size, and occasionally a bit bigger. The best part is that we sight-fish them with 8 or 9wt rods. The Bay at night is no place for paddle craft or first timers, a guided trip is the way to go if you're in the city....

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tight lines

Bob LeMay

 

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Terry, the way I understand it, any thing that has

a motor has to be registered. Go to MyFWC.com

under boating regulations, and you can see how

It read's. It used to be , electric motors were OK

but I'm pretty sure that has changed. You might

want to call Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation

Commission and talk to them to find out for sure.

I found the number :) (805) 488-3641

 

Henry F.

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Let's see if I can answer one or two of the questions you sent my way... As far as reds go they're in season all year, statewide, one per person between 18 and 27" (at max length that's a red that might weigh in the 7 to 8lb range, the smaller, 18 to 22" fish are the best eating, and not in short supply anywhere). For full particulars on licensing, bag limits, etc. go to myfwc.com (you can even buy a fishing license on-line now...). As far as fly patterns I wouldn't attempt to advise you since Cedar Key is about 300 miles from my area, and I've only had one guide from that area place just a small tarpon order with me... Contact your nearest fly shop to Cedar Key for patterns.

 

As far as top spots around the state I'm partial to Everglades National Park and it's where I am if working a daytime booking (more about that later). There are camping and RV sites at both Flamingo (due north of Islamorada across the water, 30 miles), the center of the Park, and Everglades City/Chokoloskee, the western edge of the Park (30 miles east of Naples, Chokoloskee is an island right next to Everglades City, both are just villages - but have a plenty of motels, restaurants, etc. to go with camping, RV and otherwise. Both locations offer world class jungle-type fishing year 'round (this week I've had anglers tossing flies at tarpon up to and over 100lbs in small rivers that are less than 100' wide).

 

Both Flamingo and Everglades City have canoe and kayak rentals (and also things like gators and crocs at boat ramps). This not an area to go for a swim on any day far too many sharks of every size and persuasion... Contact the Visitor's Center if you're interested they'll have a lot of info to send your way.... (305)242-7700. That whole area is a lot more like Costa Rica than America (but without the monkeys and parrots...).

 

If you're in the Miami area, along with blue water and flats fishing (from Key Biscayne south toward the Keys...), the city also has some outstanding baby tarpon action every night in winter, spring and summer... All the bridges that connect Miami to Miami Beach are feeding stations at night for tarpon in the 20-40lb size, and occasionally a bit bigger. The best part is that we sight-fish them with 8 or 9wt rods. The Bay at night is no place for paddle craft or first timers, a guided trip is the way to go if you're in the city....

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tight lines

Bob LeMay

 

Hey Capt. Bob. Thanks for that information. After talking with you guys, I may just decide to settle in Florida once my wife and I get tired of our extended fishing vacation. Next summer we will be going to Yellowstone and the following year will be driving up to Alaska. Really looking forward to that one too. Want to get in a couple more years experience with this new RV before taking that on though! Do you have a website for your guide service? Would be happy to put a link to it on my site http://flytyingclub.org

Thanks again for that great information.

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Terry, the way I understand it, any thing that has

a motor has to be registered. Go to MyFWC.com

under boating regulations, and you can see how

It read's. It used to be , electric motors were OK

but I'm pretty sure that has changed. You might

want to call Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation

Commission and talk to them to find out for sure.

I found the number :) (805) 488-3641

 

Henry F.

 

Thank you Henry, will do. If so, maybe my Disabled vet ID Card will get me some discounts. I've been getting free fishing licenses with it and now can hunt with my crossbow in most states and most of the time disabled vets are the only ones allowed. I will check out that website, so thanks for that.

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Hey Andy, thank you. Looks like I've got some tying to do now! I saw on that pattern that you provided the link to that for the hook you listed Mustad 3407 DT. I've seen that hook before on a different pattern and thought that there was a missing "0" in 3407 making it a 34007. I did some research and found out that I was mistaken and that there really is a 3407. So thanks for making that clear for me. I'll have to do some further research and find out what hooks are similar because I don't have that particular hook, but have ordered most of all the recommended hooks from this long post, so hopefully one of the other one's will work. Thanks again for that list of fly patterns.

 

Terry,

I use 3407 DT instead of 34007 because the 3407 hooks are made of duratin instead of stainless steel like the 34007, so if broken off they rust out of the fish's mouth a lot faster. They are also a whole lot cheaper. Other companies equivalents of he stainless 34007 are Tiemco 811S or 800S, Eagle Claw 254SS, Daichi 2546. I am sure there are others. The great thing about fly tying is that you can use whatever you have on hand to make it work and don't have to follow recipes exactly to be successful. Good luck.

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Terry, I'm not 100% certain that 811S is exactly the same size as the 2546, but think it may be the same. I may have some of both, so if I do I'll check it out for you. However, those 811S hooks are a good hook to tie on, so if you're getting them at a good price, then they're certainly worth having.

 

Those streamer hooks you have are better for freshwater, as they're all bronzed hooks.

 

Some saltwater patterns are better tied on a longer hook. I like to tie bendback style flies on long shank hooks, and sometimes tie Clouser Minnows & Deceivers on them. Some shrimp patterns are better tied on them IMO.

 

That Mustad S74SNP-SS hook is a stainless hook, part of the Signature Series, which are good hooks for the price. Some folks feel Mustad is not as good as other brands. Opinions vary. The Signature hooks are a lot better than their older hooks, and I've never had any issues with them.

 

If there's a chance you may fish for large Tarpon, then you'll want Owner AKI hooks. They're not stainless, but are super strong & super sharp. They're also very expensive, but worth it considering you may be fishing for the trophy of a lifetime. Otherwise, for baby Tarpon, those VMC 9255's will be fine. Another good, and relatively less expensive alternative for baby Tarpon flies is Eagle Claw 254 CAT hooks which is the the tinned version. The 254SS versions are stainless. When you can find them Eagle Claw L067 hooks are also suitable for Tarpon, but not as strong as the Owner hooks. That L067 was originally sold as a "Billy Pate Tarpon Hook"!

 

Hope this answers your questions!

 

Hey Tidewaterfly. I was able to locate a package of the Owner AKI hooks that you recommended for tarpon. Are these them:

 

owner.jpg

 

They are listed as AKI "Twist" black chrome. So I won't have any problems with that black chrome finish in Florida waters? Also, what size would you recommend that I get that will be good for a large tarpon and also small enough for the smaller tarpon? Thanks. Also, any particlar fly patterns you recommend for Florida tarpon both large and small?

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