Question for all saltwater fly tiers out there.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Terry, no those are not the hooks. Owner makes 2 versions, the regular AKI & the Twist AKI. The regular hook is the one used to tie tarpon flies,the hook is inline, the twist version has a reversed point. Both are sticky sharp & strong, so the twist version might work fine, but I've never tried them. I've heard some folks say a hook with a reversed or offset will not ride properly in the water, however, I have used such hooks & never had a problem. I've just never tied Tarpon flies on them. They will however catch on snags, even with weed guards, so the regular AKI may be what you want.

 

They will rust eventually, that black nickel is not rust proof, but it does hold up fairly well even in saltwater. As long as the fly is in good shape after use, it's best to rinse them off in freshwater to delay the effects of the salt.

 

As far as size, go with what Capt Bob suggested. You should have two sizes on hand just in case. I used to tie a lot of 2/0 & 3/0's, but the folks I tied for were mainly fishing in Key West. I did however get many requests for 1/0's for baby Tarpon.

 

There are many Tarpon fly patterns, and some are more popular for specific locations. However if you go with Black Death, Apte Tarpon (orange & yellow) Orange Grizzly or Marqueses Sunrise, Coker Smoker and a Cockroach pattern you should have a good selection. Tie them with wide rooster neck hackle & some marabou, and add about 6 strands of flash, perhaps gold or copper. Sometimes it helps to have a little flash in them, and you can remove the flash on the water if needed.

 

You might also want to tie a few with rabbit strip tails, maybe something in a black & purple. Take a look at the flies that Capt Bob has posted, and those should give you a good idea for proportions. He ties some nice flies! Also look closely at Capt Bob's flies, you'll see he does not cover the entire forward part of the shank with thread, but leaves a space just behind the hook eye. This is for snelling the shock tippet to the hook, which is preferred in some situations as it gives you better penetrating power for the hook.

 

If you intend to take some tying stuff with you, it might be a good idea to locate some local shops & get some advise on local patterns too, then tie up a few to try. Often local patterns will out produce generic patterns.

 

I hope this helps!

Jim

 

 

[Terry Dunford 0]

Terry, no those are not the hooks. Owner makes 2 versions, the regular AKI & the Twist AKI. The regular hook is the one used to tie tarpon flies,the hook is inline, the twist version has a reversed point. Both are sticky sharp & strong, so the twist version might work fine, but I've never tried them. I've heard some folks say a hook with a reversed or offset will not ride properly in the water, however, I have used such hooks & never had a problem. I've just never tied Tarpon flies on them. They will however catch on snags, even with weed guards, so the regular AKI may be what you want.

 

They will rust eventually, that black nickel is not rust proof, but it does hold up fairly well even in saltwater. As long as the fly is in good shape after use, it's best to rinse them off in freshwater to delay the effects of the salt.

 

As far as size, go with what Capt Bob suggested. You should have two sizes on hand just in case. I used to tie a lot of 2/0 & 3/0's, but the folks I tied for were mainly fishing in Key West. I did however get many requests for 1/0's for baby Tarpon.

 

There are many Tarpon fly patterns, and some are more popular for specific locations. However if you go with Black Death, Apte Tarpon (orange & yellow) Orange Grizzly or Marqueses Sunrise, Coker Smoker and a Cockroach pattern you should have a good selection. Tie them with wide rooster neck hackle & some marabou, and add about 6 strands of flash, perhaps gold or copper. Sometimes it helps to have a little flash in them, and you can remove the flash on the water if needed.

 

You might also want to tie a few with rabbit strip tails, maybe something in a black & purple. Take a look at the flies that Capt Bob has posted, and those should give you a good idea for proportions. He ties some nice flies! Also look closely at Capt Bob's flies, you'll see he does not cover the entire forward part of the shank with thread, but leaves a space just behind the hook eye. This is for snelling the shock tippet to the hook, which is preferred in some situations as it gives you better penetrating power for the hook.

 

If you intend to take some tying stuff with you, it might be a good idea to locate some local shops & get some advise on local patterns too, then tie up a few to try. Often local patterns will out produce generic patterns.

 

I hope this helps!

Jim

 

Hello Jim, that was great information. Thank you! Am I bringing my fly tying stuff with me you ask. Well, half of my 36' RV is loaded with all my fly tying stuff and is my workshop when not traveling. I will definitely check out the local shops and tie a few each of the flies you mentioned. Thanks for the information on that black chrome. I'm assuming then that the B10S's will be alright too. I've tied a deer hair shrimp using a B10S and I'm wondering why no one really suggested that I use them?

[tidewaterfly 0]

Terry the primary reason folks use that Owner AKI hook is because of it's strength & sharpness, even though the finish may not be the best for saltwater. It's a matter of giving up some corrosion resistance to get a better hook that will handle a big Tarpon. You know, trophy of a life time thing!

 

That Gammie B10S is an excellent hook, but it's a light wire hook, so that's likely why it didn't get mentioned for saltwater. Excellent hook for bass flies! :thumbsup:

 

It may be fine for some light saltwater use too, but it will rust. Personally, I think Owners black nickel finishes are better than Gamakatsu's too, but neither are really great for saltwater.

 

I like that B10S style hook too for shrimp patterns, but prefer to use a Mustad Signature Series C47SNP-DT (old ref. C47SD) Saltwater Shrimp hook which is a much stronger hook for saltwater use & has a tinned finish for better corrosion protection.

 

BTW, the VMC 9255 I previously mentioned is very similar to Mustad 3407's, same sizes. Except, IMO, the VMC is a better quality hook, as it's stronger & sharper out of the package. I've also used Mustad 3407's for many years, and still use them, but they do need to be sharpened!

 

[Terry Dunford 0]

Terry the primary reason folks use that Owner AKI hook is because of it's strength & sharpness, even though the finish may not be the best for saltwater. It's a matter of giving up some corrosion resistance to get a better hook that will handle a big Tarpon. You know, trophy of a life time thing!

 

That Gammie B10S is an excellent hook, but it's a light wire hook, so that's likely why it didn't get mentioned for saltwater. Excellent hook for bass flies! :thumbsup:

 

It may be fine for some light saltwater use too, but it will rust. Personally, I think Owners black nickel finishes are better than Gamakatsu's too, but neither are really great for saltwater.

 

I like that B10S style hook too for shrimp patterns, but prefer to use a Mustad Signature Series C47SNP-DT (old ref. C47SD) Saltwater Shrimp hook which is a much stronger hook for saltwater use & has a tinned finish for better corrosion protection.

 

BTW, the VMC 9255 I previously mentioned is very similar to Mustad 3407's, same sizes. Except, IMO, the VMC is a better quality hook, as it's stronger & sharper out of the package. I've also used Mustad 3407's for many years, and still use them, but they do need to be sharpened!

 

 

 

Hey, Jim. Thanks for that additional information. I understand why the Owner AKI hooks are important and I agree with the logic; however, I was surprised to hear you say the B10S hooks where not strong hooks. I use them mainly for spun deer hair flies and prefer them over the popular TMC 8089's because the B10S hooks have the heavier wire. Were you referring to the type of steel? I will definitely look for and get the Owner AKI hooks, and I'm assuming that 3/0, 2/0 and 1/0 would be the one's to get? After listening to all your guys advice in this thread, here is my newly updated list of saltwater hooks that I now have:

 

Mustad 3407DT - Size 6 O'Shaughnessy bend, straight eye, 1X Long, 2X strong, Duratin Steel

Mustad 3407DT - Size 4 O'Shaughnessy bend, straight eye, 1X Long, 2X strong, Duratin Steel

Mustad 3407DT - Size 2 O'Shaughnessy bend, straight eye, 1X Long, 2X strong, Duratin Steel

Mustad 3407DT - Size 1 O'Shaughnessy bend, straight eye, 1X Long, 2X strong, Duratin Steel

Tiemco 811S - Size 4 (comparable to Mustad 34007) - Saltwater, stainless steel, 1x heavy, standard length

34011 - Size 2/0 Stainless steel saltwater hook. Straight ring eye. Long shank

34011 - Size 2 Stainless steel saltwater hook. Straight ring eye. Long shank

2546 – Size 3/0 Saltwater Hook, Stainless Steel, O’Shaughnessy Bend, Straight Eye

2546 – Size 1/0 Saltwater Hook, Stainless Steel, O’Shaughnessy Bend, Straight Eye

2546 – Size 2 Saltwater Hook, Stainless Steel, O’Shaughnessy Bend, Straight Eye

GAMAGATSU B10S – Size 2/0 Stinger Hook

GAMAGATSU B10S – Size 1/0 Stinger Hook

GAMAGATSU B10S – Size 2 Stinger Hook

GAMAGATSU B10S – Size 6 Stinger Hook

Maruto Hooks – Size 3/0 Saltwater Heavy Circle Hook

 

So I will be adding the Owner AKI's to the list. I'll have to review this thread in full again to make sure I didn't miss anything major, but if you see something that I will definitely need, then please let me know because I'm about ready to dig in and tie a whole bunch of saltwater flies for my 6 month Florida fishing trip. I have to wait another couple of weeks to get the Congo hair in, so will continue to learn all I can until that arrives. Thanks again for your great advice.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Terry, I may be mistaken, but it seemed to me that those B10S hooks were lighter wire. See how they compare to a 3407 as far as the wire size. I've got some around here, but would have to find them. The Tiemco hook is a finer wire, I have some of them in my hand.

 

Your list looks pretty good! Maruto hooks are darn fine hooks too! You likely don't need those AKI hooks in 3 sizes, but it don't hurt if you get them & tie some flies in each of those sizes. I feel it's good to have a variety of fly sizes when you need them!

 

I really envy you right now! I wish I could take a 6 month trip to Florida to go fishing!

 

I hope you make the most of it, and you better take lots of pictures!

 

All this information is going to cost you! You will be required to keep us up to date with lots of fish porn! :thumbup:

[Terry Dunford 0]

Terry, I may be mistaken, but it seemed to me that those B10S hooks were lighter wire. See how they compare to a 3407 as far as the wire size. I've got some around here, but would have to find them. The Tiemco hook is a finer wire, I have some of them in my hand.

 

Your list looks pretty good! Maruto hooks are darn fine hooks too! You likely don't need those AKI hooks in 3 sizes, but it don't hurt if you get them & tie some flies in each of those sizes. I feel it's good to have a variety of fly sizes when you need them!

 

I really envy you right now! I wish I could take a 6 month trip to Florida to go fishing!

 

I hope you make the most of it, and you better take lots of pictures!

 

All this information is going to cost you! You will be required to keep us up to date with lots of fish porn! :thumbup:

 

I can definitely handle the fish porn! Unfortunetly, I will still be working part-time running my business, but that's no biggie. A friend of mine gave me his old professional video camera, you might know him. He's got a popular fly fishing show on the Versus network right now. You can check out the site I designed for him here: http://flyfishtv.com

 

When the 3407's arrive, I will compare them and let you know. But I can tell you now that the B10S hooks are almost even as strong as the Maruto sitting right here in my hand I'm comparing the two. So if you are familiar with my Maruto Circle hooks, then that should give you an idea.

 

I do appreciate all the great information. I'll surely keep you guys posted and will probably have a live blog on my site http://flytyingclub.org

 

I look forward to when all those new hooks arrive. Thanks again!!!

[tidewaterfly 0]

Terry, you're welcome! I'll be looking forward to seeing some great pictures! I don't know Kelly, never met him, but certainly know his reputation!

 

I have his site bookmarked, and your's as well! :thumbsup:

 

[Terry Dunford 0]

Terry, you're welcome! I'll be looking forward to seeing some great pictures! I don't know Kelly, never met him, but certainly know his reputation!

 

I have his site bookmarked, and your's as well! :thumbsup:

 

Thanks, Jim. The guy I know is the guy behind the camera, not Kelly. I'm very pleased that you liked my site. I'm sure we'll be speaking again as I'm sure something else will come up as I admit I do not know everything there is to know about saltwater fly tying. So until then....

[tidewaterfly 0]

I admit I do not know everything there is to know about saltwater fly tying.

 

Terry, that makes two of us! I'm still learning also!

[60mikes 0]

terry:The gamakatsu hoos I use are size 2.I use them for EP type flies.High stacked &sparse.

Partial to olive over white &pear Krystalflash.Yellow,hot orange,pearl KF & peacock herl on top.

I started Skulz & I like them.I like 1 color streamers,flas & peacock herl.Hope it helps.Enjoy yourself.

 

[Terry Dunford 0]

terry:The gamakatsu hoos I use are size 2.I use them for EP type flies.High stacked &sparse.

Partial to olive over white &pear Krystalflash.Yellow,hot orange,pearl KF & peacock herl on top.

I started Skulz & I like them.I like 1 color streamers,flas & peacock herl.Hope it helps.Enjoy yourself.

 

Thank you, I'll tie a few and give 'em a shot.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

The SC15 by Gamakatsu in sizes 1/0 and larger are the preferred hook of the top Keys tarpon guides. They have a small wire for their size but are very strong making for easier/better penetration on the hookset and outstanding holding power with the wide gap and short shank and steel strength. As the hooks Tidewater mentioned, this one is not long lived in the salt but SS hooks which last long just don't hold up to the bruts and will straighten even on a 25lb redfish with a good tight drag setting.

 

Kirk