catmanclark 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 i see alot of stores selling balsa poppers, but foam is getting alot of attention nowadays.. i was at a local flyfishing expo here in MN, and it seemed that the tiers that were using foam, sort of scoffed at sanded balsa or basswood etc headed poppers.. Is hand sanding poppers part of the "old way" ?? My father and brother are all about foam also.. Me personally, like the work it takes to create a balsa panfish popper.. But what is your opinion on the matter? Is wooden poppers becoming a thing of the past (not that it matters at all)? What do you prefer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJ All Day 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 I prefer a wood or cork popper over foam. I think some people use foam over wood is because it might be easier, and more durable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 i would use balsa poppers if there were stores selling balsa BLANKS but ive never seen them on online fly shops only the finished ones. if you have sources for balsa BLANKS how about letting us know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fred H. 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 I can only add questions. Which is easier to work with ? which gives the best finished results? Which fishes or rides the water best ? I would think if someone wanted to get into making small poppers and did not have any woodworking experience it might be easier for them to start with preformed foam popper bodies. There are some very good popper makers on this forum both balsa and foam , I hope them chime in. Fred Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 I do both, as do many others. Thus, I personally do not think that balsa bodied bugs are a thing of the past; at least not yet. However, as we drift away from the old 'hand skills' that so many of us grew up learning, and drift more to technology, they cold very well become a thing of the past. How many boys today know how to take a green willow branch, a pocket knife, and make a whistle? More important, perhaps, is how many boys today routinely carry a pocket knife, at least one for whittling? (Now I'm showing my age! I still carry that pocket knife! Just a much smaller version.) Each material has it's own 'personality', which has a lot to do with which I work at the time. If I want pencil poppers, the material of choice is unquestionably balsa! I can make dozens of bodies in a matter of a couple of hours; whereas, it takes much longer and more headaches, to make them out of foam. If I want multi-layered cake with a different filling between each layer, I use foam, 'Fun Foam'. The foam can be glued up in as many layers, and therefore colors, as one's heart desires, and the glued-up blocks can be cut at any angle you see fit to give various and sundry 'patterns' (not unlike making veneer inlays for fine furniture). Being 'old-fashioned', I do not like to put a hook down through a hole drilled dead-center through a cylinder of foam, as many do. There is something about the cutting of the slot, and gluing the hook into that slot that has been cut into the bottom of the bug that has tremendous appeal to me. Hence, I do not make cylindrical bodied foam poppers. Moreover, sanding one side of a foam cylinder flat on my belt sander, as I do with balsa bodies, can be a challenge! They wind up all over my garage!! HOWEVER, I do make a lot of cylindrical bodied balsa bugs. Cut them out of a block of balsa with a brass tube in my drill press, sand the bottom flat on my belt sander (for the larger bodies), cut the groove with my band saw (again, for the larger bodies), or with a hacksaw blade, and cup the face with a round stone in my Dremel. If I want a sloped face, I just touch the balsa to my belt sander. I do not use the preformed foam bodies, therefore, I do not paint foam bugs. The color is 'built in' by the 'Fun Foam' color choices I made to form the body from. Balsa is very easy to paint and work with in my experience. The major difference between balsa and 'Fun Foam' bodied bugs is that the foam does absorb water with time, and the bugs do begin to float lower in the water. All one needs to do is to give them a good 'squeeze' to correct the problem. The flip side is that the the foam bugs never need a new paint job, as balsa can require. Also, the foam bugs don't seem to get chewed up as easily. My now 90 year old fishing buddy held up one of his 'Fun Foam' bugs a couple of years ago and exclaimed: "Frank, I have caught 42 bass (large mouth) on this bug!" Upon close examination of the bug, I told him it needed corneal transplants, as the plastic doll eyes were so badly scratched up that you could barely see the black pupils inside. I have no idea how many more bass he has caught on it. It showed absolutely no wear and tear on the body per se. I firmly believe that a balsa body with the same 'fish exposure' would have show wear and tear. In my personal opinion, it all boils down to what 'floats your boat'. Which, in turn, leaves me with a question: Why limit yourself to one or the other? Below is an example of a diving injured minnow made by gluing 'Fun Foam together into blocks, and then cutting off individual bodies and finishing them. Cheers, perchjerker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelkay 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 I have used many materials in poppers. Balsa takes longer, but I sure like it a lot. Foam is easy and works almost as well. I also like Basswood poppers. I have even made ear plug poppers, but I don't like them as well as foam Perfect Poppers by Waspi. I also much prefer soft foam poppers to the harder foam. It is easier to work with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oatka 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 I started my popper journey with small cork, and painted them with nail polish. Since those days 15 years or so ago, I've made some with preformed foam from J. Stockard, and sheets of foam from Wal-Mart. I'm almost done with 50 of the preformed from J. Stockard, and having a great time. I did buy a strip of balsa and got as far as cutting a few pieces to length. I stopped working on those because I had to shape them myself....and to me, that wasn't appealing to me. In the end, the balsa would be cheaper per fly, but more time consuming since you have to shape it first. If I had to vote, I'd vote for those preformed ones from J. Stockard....just wish they came in larger sizes....yes, even larger than the saltwater sizes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tidewaterfly 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 I've made poppers out of just about any material I thought might work. I certainly agree with perchjerker, some of us older guys didn't have all these nice ready made materials when we got started so we had to make them ourselves. I also agree with why limit yourself! All of the materials used for poppers have advantages & disadvantages, all require various amounts of effort to produce a finished bug. Do what you like. I've gotten away from balsa, but only because I don't have the time to work with it like I did when I was younger. Heck, I used to make poppers for sale & made them with balsa, but fact is with the time spent working with it, I can make 100 times as many poppers with the preformed foam bodies. I still use cork bottle stoppers, but rarely reshape them any more. I may cup the face with my Dremel, but that's about it! If it's simply a matter of time, or money, do what's simplest & cheapest for you. But, if you want to learn about something you haven't tried before, then pick up some of these "old" materials & give it a shot! oatka, I'm with you man! I would also like to see some BIGGER bug bodies! :thumbup: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigfoot 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 HOWEVER, I do make a lot of cylindrical bodied balsa bugs. Cut them out of a block of balsa with a brass tube in my drill press, sand the bottom flat on my belt sander (for the larger bodies), cut the groove with my band saw (again, for the larger bodies), or with a hacksaw blade, and cup the face with a round stone in my Dremel. If I want a sloped face, I just touch the balsa to my belt sander. perchjerker I would like to know more about using a brass tube to cut out balsa bodies? Is the brass tube the tube you can buy at a hobby shop? Do you do anything to the tube before you place it in your drill press? Any help would be great. BF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 Bigfoot: More than happy to oblige. Hes, it is the brass tubing one gets in the hardware and hobby stores. I will describe my process for making pencil popper bodies, and you should be able to make any modifications necessary to meet your needs. Buy the various diameter tubes you want for the diameter of your bodies. Then decide how long each body will be. Multiply this by tw0, and cut the tubing to be this long plus 1 inch. Then add enough for chucking in the chuck of your drill press, and cut it. You need to de-burr the 'cutting end' and file/sand the outer edge to create a cutting edge. I use 4" X 4" balsa stock to cut my'working' blocks from. Let's assume that I need a body that is 2 inches long. I will mark my block to be 4 1/8 inches long, and cut it off. My brass tube will be close to 6 inches long. I mark the block back from the end 1/8" on all four sides t one end. I chuck up my tube and set my travel stop at 4 inches. I double check the travel distance to make sure it s no more than 4 inches. I then place the block of balsa,with the 1/8" marked end down, on my drill table. I then proceed to drill as many 'plugs' as I can as close to both the edges and each other as I can. When yo raise the cutter (brass tube) the balsa plug stays in the block! You need to hold the block firmly when retrieving the cutter. Do this as many times as you can without cutting into a previous 'plug'. After you have cut as many pugs as possible, take the block to a band saw, if you have one,and cut the 1/8" bottom off. Voila'! you will have as many 2 inch log cylinders as you cut 'plugs' that will now fall out of the original block! Step 2 is to stick each end of the 'plug' into a pencil sharpener and sharpen to a point. I now have a cylinder that tapers to a point on each end. I then cut across the cylinder at the center point at about a 15 degree angle. I now have TWO bodies, each 2 inches long and with a sloped face. The sloped face can be cupped, or left flat. If left flat. and the longer side placed down on the hook shank, they will dive when retrieved. You should be able to take things d from here to make bodies of whatever size and length you desire. You can cut them across square to give you shorter cylinders to work with for more conventionally shaped bodies, and use the techniques previously posted on this forum for shaping both balsa and cork bodies using a Dremel and small files or sandpaper. I do not have photos of the various stages that I go through, but have posted a couple of photos of some of my finished pencil poppers. The last three photos are of the same bug; profile, what the birds see, and a fish-eye view. It is a diving fool! If you have more questions about the process,please feel free to post your questions. Cheers, Frank Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 Bigfoot: More than happy to oblige. Yes, it is the brass tubing one gets in the hardware and hobby stores. I may insert a short piece of dowel into the end to be chucked just to keep from deforming it with too much chuck pressure. I will describe my process for making pencil popper bodies, and you should be able to make any modifications necessary to meet your needs. Buy the various diameter tubes you want for the diameter of your bodies. Then decide how long each body will be. Multiply this by two, and cut the tubing to be this long plus 1 inch. Then add enough for chucking in the chuck of your drill press, and cut it. You need to de-burr the 'cutting end' and file/sand the outer edge to create a cutting edge. I use 4" X 4" balsa stock to cut my 'working' blocks from. Let's assume that I need a body that is 2 inches long. I will mark my block to be 4 1/8 inches long, and cut it off. My brass tube will be close to 6 inches long. I mark the block back from the end 1/8" on all four sides t one end. I chuck up my tube and set my travel stop at 4 inches. I double check the travel distance to make sure it s no more than 4 inches. I then place the block of balsa,with the 1/8" marked end down, on my drill table. I then proceed to drill as many 'plugs' as I can as close to both the edges and each other as I can. When yo raise the cutter (brass tube) the balsa plug stays in the block! You need to hold the block firmly when retrieving the cutter. Do this as many times as you can without cutting into a previous 'plug'. After you have cut as many pugs as possible, take the block to a band saw, if you have one,and cut the 1/8" bottom off. Voila'! you will have as many 2 inch log cylinders as you cut 'plugs' that will now fall out of the original block! The extra one inch tube length let's you keep an don on the top of the block and the tube as you drill. Step 2 is to stick each end of the 'plug' into a pencil sharpener and sharpen to a point. I now have a cylinder that tapers to a point on each end. I then cut across the cylinder at the center point at about a 15 degree angle. I now have TWO bodies, each 2 inches long and with a sloped face. The sloped face can be cupped, or left flat. If left flat. and the longer side placed down on the hook shank, they will dive when retrieved. You should be able to take things d from here to make bodies of whatever size and length you desire. You can cut them across square to give you shorter cylinders to work with for more conventionally shaped bodies, and use the techniques previously posted on this forum for shaping both balsa and cork bodies using a Dremel and small files or sandpaper. I do not have photos of the various stages that I go through, but have posted a couple of photos of some of my finished pencil poppers. The last three photos are of the same bug; profile, what the birds see, and a fish-eye view. It is a diving fool! If you have more questions about the process,please feel free to post your questions. Cheers, Frank Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oatka 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 Perchjerker, great write up on how you cut the bodies. it sounds like a well thought out approach. I like the bodies on those flies. How did you get them to look scaly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2011 oatka: First before I answer your question, let me apologize for the repeat post. My 'pooter' is giving me fits today. I collect tiny scales from minnows and glue then on, one-by-one!! You need very thin aluminum foil, like that used by restaurants, etc., to wrap baking potatoes in. Regular aluminum foil for household use is too thick! The balsa bodies are painted with a good contact cement, such as Barge or Pliobond, and a coat is also put on a small square of the foil. Once the glue has 'dried' (skinned over), the body is covered with the foil, which is pulled tight on the bottom side and pinched tight against the body at the juncture of the two. Any wrinkles in the foil can be smoothed out using a smooth round rod, credit card edge, etc. The fold of foil along the bottom is cut off flush with a pair of scissors. Take an Xacto knife, remove the blade, and use the knurled collar around the collett to roll over the entire body, starting on the mid-line of the back, and gradually working down from side to side, all the way to the belly. You have embossed the scale patter into the foil! If you goof, simply us a smooth object to smooth the area out, and start over again. All of this is done before the glue has a chance to 'set'. If you have made a cup in the face, use the rounded-over end of a piece of dowel to seat the foil into the cup. I coat ALL of my balsa bugs with a 1:1:1 mix of 30 minute epoxy and 70% rubbing alcohol (1 part resin, 1 part hardener, 1 part alcohol). Yes, it will turn milky while being mixed, but it dries gin clear! This helps protect the integrity of the foil and the embossed scales, and 'clear coats' my paint jobs. Putting scales on them can be fun. It is the collecting of the pesky little minnows that is the challenge!! Common courtesy requires me to give credit where credit is due. Charlie Cypert, well know Central Texas inland lakes Striped Bass Guide produced these by the thousands and kept both the Houston and Dallas Orvis stores stocked, as well as every other fly shop in the State worth its salt. Charlie, a very dear friend, taught me how to do it. They are also a very popular saltwater flie here on the Texas coast. Hope this helps. Cheers, perchjerker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oatka 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2011 Wow, that's cool! I might have to try that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hook-line&sinker 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2011 Cork, balsa, foam or plastic I have used it all and enjoy building flys from whatever material I've got on hand. But IMHO the most versatile and easiest material to use is foam. Nothing is faster from vice to water to fish then foam. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites