Kirk Dietrich 0 Report post Posted April 16, 2011 ...Although, I have yet to catch one on a fly, I'm sure this would apply with Redfish too when they're rooting around on a mud bottom. Has this been your experience?... If redfish have their nose down, they can be stirring up mud or not but their attention is focused pretty nearby. There are a few tactics we enerally employ; first of course is to get a fly at their level and close to their nose and will generally turn on the fly and eat. Then if that doesn't work, a fly that pushes more water can be pulled past them and try to get them to "feel" the fly. The other is employed if they are really dug in tailing and won't look up and that is to throw a popper nearby and chug it to get their attention, when their tail goes down, it means they heard the commotion and are looking off the bottom at which time you begin your standard gentle pop consistent cadence to draw them in for the kill. Fortunately, most of the time, our fish are cruising and moving in the water column looking for food. Good question. BTW, I have caught quite a few carp cruising this year. Last year, I had no luck with cruisers but after having so many grubbing carp turn on the orange fly, I had to toss that orange color at some cruisers and the first one I threw to ate; and a few subsequent ones as well. Now, I don't pass those cruisers up like I used to. As for the Carp, the still water I fish makes it even harder to feed them in the mud than I would think carp in a stream that carries the mud away. Generally, I wait till they advance to a new piece of ground and throw and strip the fly close and in their line. Often they will eat as the fly comes by their head. My most memorable and one of my largest was taken by what I thought was a sure blown cast. The fish was perpendicular to the bank and my cast went over its back, I tried to gently strip the fly over its back but when I saw it resting on the fishes back, I stopped. Well, when the fish turned parallel to the bank and toward me, the fly fell off its back and I stripped it to get it in front of his lips. When the fly passed its eye, the fish turned and inhaled the fly! While redfish rarely refuse that presentation, it was the first time I had a carp do that, it was so cool! Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianMyers 0 Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Just a few patterns backstabber Crazy carper Mr P`s carp carrot red fox squirrel nymph Rocky MTN. carp fly swap - bunch of patterns Clouser swimming nymph Foxee Red Clouser Carp crack Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tidewaterfly 0 Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Kirk, thanks for that explanation! The more I hear about orange, the more I think I need to use it. I've never had a cruising carp go after a fly, and I know I've put one in front of at least a hundred over many years! Brian, thanks for that list! That Crazy Carper & the Carp Candy listed on the Rocky MTN site are the type of flies I've had success with. Plus large nymphs as I said previously. Great stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirk Dietrich 0 Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Tide, here are two that I have had good success with. I have some without much weight for the next time I run across them when they are cruising. Same as above except without legs and worked as effectively. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullship 0 Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Tide, here are two that I have had good success with. I have some without much weight for the next time I run across them when they are cruising. Same as above except without legs and worked as effectively. Nice. Is that fox squirrel? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tidewaterfly 0 Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Kirk, those are nice looking flies! Thanks! And to add to Bullship's question, what size hook are they tied on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirk Dietrich 0 Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Thanks, the tail is a tuft of orange rabbit fur. The body is some custom made DDH dubbing from Stu Thompson, which is brown, yellow, and red rabbit mixed with a little of fine halo flash; I put it in a dubbing loop and wrapped it on. The fly with the legs is an Orvis Shrimp/Scud #10 hook, the one without is a Tiemco 811s #4. They're about the same sized fly but the bigger hook sticks and holds a lot better. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianMyers 0 Report post Posted April 17, 2011 When the flies in the links I posted fail , I switch to a size 12-14 simple nymph. Nothing more than two rubber tails , black or brown dubbing and rubber legs. I tie them with tiny black brass dumbell eyes for weight plus to get the hook to ride point up. There is also Mr.P`s Black Betty. I have not hooked a carp on it yet but have taken plenty of smallies and bluegill on it. A pic of it can be seen here, a little more than half way done the page. This will be my 3rd season chasing carp with only 13 hook ups and one landed. All that happened just last year , I couldn`t even get carp to turn to look at a fly the first year. :wallbash: The fish I landed was taken in a lake on a mulberry fly. Lake carp don`t seem to put up the fight of river carp. All the rest of my hook ups have been on the river. The river fish sure put up a hard fight and know where every sharp rock and submerged branch is. I just keep breaking them off even with 2x tippet. They just must be a lot smarter than I am , but they have me hooked! Now if I can just keep them hooked long enough to land them . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullship 0 Report post Posted April 17, 2011 When the flies in the links I posted fail , I switch to a size 12-14 simple nymph. Nothing more than two rubber tails , black or brown dubbing and rubber legs. I tie them with tiny black brass dumbell eyes for weight plus to get the hook to ride point up. There is also Mr.P`s Black Betty. I have not hooked a carp on it yet but have taken plenty of smallies and bluegill on it. A pic of it can be seen here, a little more than half way done the page. This will be my 3rd season chasing carp with only 13 hook ups and one landed. All that happened just last year , I couldn`t even get carp to turn to look at a fly the first year. :wallbash: The fish I landed was taken in a lake on a mulberry fly. Lake carp don`t seem to put up the fight of river carp. All the rest of my hook ups have been on the river. The river fish sure put up a hard fight and know where every sharp rock and submerged branch is. I just keep breaking them off even with 2x tippet. They just must be a lot smarter than I am , but they have me hooked! Now if I can just keep them hooked long enough to land them . They are tough for sure. My numbers aren't a whole lot better than that, although i've had a few days of multiple fish. I've only strictly lake fished for them, but since I'm moving a few miles away from a river that's loaded with them(and will be hours away from a lake) that game will likely change. I started using flouro bonefish leaders and it helps a lot. There are still tons of rocks and stumps, as well as the occasional shopping cart and submerged dock to get hung up on in lakes, but current poses another problem. i imagine I'll get skunked my fair share until I figure them out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tidewaterfly 0 Report post Posted April 17, 2011 OK, I did some tying last night incorporating some orange, and here's what I came up with! Let me know what you think! Chenille & rabbit, couple of strands of copper flash Dubbed body, Rabbit tail, Dyed Coyote wing Dubbed body, Rabbit tail Same as 2nd, but slightly different color shade for the dubbing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullship 0 Report post Posted April 17, 2011 Word up. i stole Kirk's pattern this morning......... Getting the boat and the box ready. I'm thankful for at least a couple other carp geeks to share this stuff with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirk Dietrich 0 Report post Posted April 18, 2011 Tide, those look great. Can't wait to get a report from you on if the orange works as good for you as it has for Bull and I. Bull, you didn't steal my pattern, you made it look better! Great looking fly. I'd love to see some close ups of some of those flies from that geeky box of yours. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianMyers 0 Report post Posted April 18, 2011 Tidewater, Those will work for sure but the only problem is keeping the sunnies and smallmouth off of them long enough for the carp to have a shot. Around here bass follow the carp around sucking in anything that tries to get away. Last November was the last carp I hooked into for the season. It took a simple orange beadheaded caddis nymph with the body made from the orange plastic bags our paper comes in when its wet out. I put it some distance upstream ahead of a group that were moving away from me . One turned back to pick it up after the group had passed over it then immediately ran further downstream and into some half sunken brush that snapped the tippet. My favorite lost carp was earlier last summer when one started to run upstream and I figured I had him as he was heading into very shallow water. Before he got to the shallow section he went under a long sunken branch that I couldn`t see , wrapped it around the branch twice and shot straight up into air to breaking the tippet. I just stood there staring and wondering what it was doing. I had to go over and unwrap my line from the branch. I am definitely being outclassed and outsmarted by these fish. :wallbash: :ripped: Still I can`t stop wasting flies and days chasing them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianMyers 0 Report post Posted April 18, 2011 Bullship said *There are still tons of rocks and stumps, as well as the occasional shopping cart and submerged dock to get hung up on in lakes, but current poses another problem. i imagine I'll get skunked my fair share until I figure them out. * The one river my brother and I fish the most runs through farm land and Lancaster city (PA). We encounter everything from farm equiptment and dead livestock to building materials, toilets and the kitchen sink. Plenty of unnatural junk to snag on. Carp just don`t care. We have also located a couple of koi on the same river but they have eluded us so far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve P 0 Report post Posted April 18, 2011 Just because I have been following this and not said a word yet. I must say my go to fly is a head stand....... here is a tying video I made for it some time ago (sorry it's not my best work) I really only fish this fly and the occasional mulberry or crawdad. All of my flies are a size 6 or larger now and the most common size I use is a 4 or 2. I have found that the smaller flies in cloudy water just do not get seen well and the larger heavier flies get noticed and smashed on more often....... just my .02 Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites