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clemmy

Bobbin weight: Is less more??

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Relatively new to tying, as I've always been into lure building, but it's amazing how we drift in interests. I'm trying to start off with a proper set-up and methods, so I won't automatically need to unlearn/replace things right away, mbut not going "all out" on top of the line stuff either. (i.e. I'm forcing myself to hand whip finish right now so I'll learn it)

 

My question is about bobbin weight. I've read lots of posts on this and oter sites on various merits and flaws of various ones. But I never saw a definitive arguement on bobbin weight. I did read that a heavier bobbin is better as it requires less thread wraps to hold material in place (I think this was in one of AK's books), I'm supposing that the hanging bobbin will contribute more to the stabilization of said material. My own inital thoughts were that all things being equal, I'd rather do repetitive motion/hold something light rather than heavy. I suppose I could always adjust by using foam versus wood spools, or adding a bit of lead tape to go the other way, but I'm curious as to your thoughts!

 

Thanks,

 

Craig

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Interesting, i am pretty new too...The bobbin i had in my kit is some made in India job, it gets it done - i think one day i was in the fly shop and splurged on a renzetti midge tip. This is very light weight, the difference was immediately apparent, i really like it but i had to bend the arms out a little as there was entirely too much tension. What i would recommend from my tiny bit of experience is to try a few and see what feels 'right' in your hands if you can.

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What I think is that using a lighter bobbin for smaller flies like dries and then use a heavier bobbin for larger flies like bass bugs would be the best idea, but I just use a marcpetit jean tt bobbin and it works great.

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you could always add split shot to the inside of the spool if you need weight

 

i like to hold material on the hook with tight wraps vs a heavy bobbin holder

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I'm with flytire on this one, the tying process should be what's holding things together. I've used many types of bobbins over the years, and they've all worked just fine as far as tying went. All that I've used would keep enough tension on thread to keep things in place, so I never gave the actual weight much thought.

If I needed to let a bobbin hang, and also needed to keep materials in place, a quick half hitch or 3 wrap whip knot is a better choice IMO, than worrying about the bobbin weight. I've broken the thread hanging below the fly a few times, and just had to retie & keep going. If the tension from the bobbin weight was the only thing holding things together, that would have been a problem. My advise is use what's most comfortable for you weight wise & learn to tie a half hitch or whip knot.

 

My only real concern with bobbins has be longevity, as I've worn out several of them, so when I buy one now, it has to have a ceramic insert, and that's about all I really care about. Most of the ones I use now are Griffin, which are very good quality, so when I buy one, I know it will last. If you buy any of the better brand ceramic bobbins, then chances are you'll get a bobbin that will work just fine for most tying and last a long time too!

 

If you learn to whip finish properly by hand, then save your money & don't buy a whip finish tool, as it's likely not going to help you or improve your tying. ;)

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Agree with the previous two posters. Weight of the bobbin is not something to worry about in my mind. Three tight wraps are all you really need to hold most materials. A smaller bobbin might be useful for smaller flies, and one with a longer barrel is good for larger flies, but weight really isn't a consideration.

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When it comes to keeping tension on your tying with a hanging bobbin, Less Is Less. If you never let go or don't mind added bulk from extra knots less doesn't matter.

 

Just tie more flies to bulk up your tying muscles! ;)

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I use Faruk Ekich bobbins, simply because I'm spoiled. They offer me every convienence a bobbin can offer and with my auto dubber attached they cut my time in half. The bobbin is always where I want it when I want it. It is heavy enough to hold material in place with a single bite and with the auto dubber attached, there is no waste dubbing material or tag end to cut off. With this one tool I can average tie a traditional nymph or dry every two minutes. 30 flies an hour. You can't do much better than that.

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+1 what they said. Tight wraps make strong flies, not a heavy bobbin.

 

I agree 100%. One trick I have always used to tie very strong tight flies, is to tie them wet. I have a stamp sponge in a dish, like you see at the post office. I dab the tip of my finger on the wet sponge and run it down the thread before I tie a material in. This lubricates the thread and allows you to pull wraps , half hitches and bites very tight without any friction or thread breakage. It also stops materials from spinning on the shank. Adding this little practise to your every day tying, you will soon be tying stronger tighter better looking flies.

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..and with my auto dubber attached.....and with the auto dubber attached, there is no waste dubbing material or tag end to cut off.

 

I don't see this on his website, is this an add on you made to the bobbin? if so, I'd be interested in a photo of what you've done, to compare it to mine.

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As Education Director for Texas FlyFishers in Houston, Texas, and having been involved with their annual fly tying course for 13 years now, in answer to the original question, let me relate the following about two of our instructors, who both teach how to do specific deer hair bugs. One of these guys has been a commercial deer hair bug tier. The other has a deer hair pattern (at least one) licensed to Umpqua. They both use standard Renzetti bobbins; one just as it comes from the shop; the other cuts a 6 oz lead egg-weight in half crosswise, and pokes the stem of his bobbin through it, claiming that the additional weight is essential to keeping the hair in place when you turn loose of the bobbin. The other one simply takes two turns of thread around a clump, and pulls straight down when he spins hair, and three turns of thread and pulls straight towards his chest when he is spinning. He actually gets up and walks around the room and checks what each student is doing, leaving his bobbin totally unattended, and there may be 20+ students in the room! I can assure you that his thread, and ergo the hair, has not move one single millimeter during his "up" time.

 

I encourage each of you to draw your own conclusions from these two different ideas, and approaches, relative to the subject.

 

As a side-bar: Can you imagine how tiring contending with 3 oz of weight on your bobbin would be if you were tying everyday as a

commercial tier?

 

 

To add my own personal experience to this, I have been tying for 40 years now, tying from #28 up to 3/0! In my experience, how the bobbin feels in your hand is the most important feature. It's weight has little or nothing to do with it, unless it is very heavy (like with a lead weight on it!). The other major consideration is that you need to be able to adjust the thread tension on it very readily, as the circumstances require.

 

One quick note for the benefit of the 'newbies'. NEVER EVER try to adjust the tension on the 'wishbone' type bobbins by spreading the 'legs' apart. Just like with the wishbone from the chicken, or turkey, sooner of later you will break the silver solder joint between the legs and the tube. A standard soldering iron will NOT fix it! It doesn't get hot enough. Your favorite local jeweler can fix it! Take two pair of pliers and grasp a leg on each side of the built-in bend, and open or close this bend as needed. Do this on BOTH legs.

 

 

perchjerker

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..and with my auto dubber attached.....and with the auto dubber attached, there is no waste dubbing material or tag end to cut off.

 

I don't see this on his website, is this an add on you made to the bobbin? if so, I'd be interested in a photo of what you've done, to compare it to mine.

 

 

Hello Oatka. Right now I make the auto dubber by hand one at a time. I can make it to fit any bobbin. I just sent it to Ottawa and we are in the process of finding someone with a small machine shop in the area to manufacture it. Everything is still pending. It takes a lot of $$$$$ to go through the process or marketing and manufacturing. The difference between the auto dubber and other bobbin dubbers on the market, Mitch's, MP's etc: is that the auto dubber works like a a block & tackle. You can adjust and change the length of your loop at will even after it is looped over the hook. It uses three thread lines all held at the same tension in an open triangle. Because it is held in an open triangle, you always end up with a uniform tapered dubbing body. When you spin the bobbin as the taper starts from back to front, the spring arms slowly start to draw in while holding even tension on the loop . You can add as many dubbings as you want to the three separate thread lines. When you wind on the loop on to the hook shank and reach the end of your dubbing loop, lift the weight off the bobbin and the retractable tension arms will pop out. Because it was wound tight in one direction, it will try to counter unwind itself in the opposite direction, in doing so wrapping it's self around your main third thread line, in the same principal as you use when making a furled leader. There is no excess material or tag end to cut away afterwards. That's about the best I can explain it. It would be better if I posted a video, which I will try in the near future.

 

Any questions just ask

 

 

Pics addad

 

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Thanks Vonbur, that's awesome!

 

]

Thanks Oatka, yes it's pretty neat. It took me a little bit of tweaking because I was making them one at a time by hand,but the concept is working flawlessly now. Most of the bullet bobbins coming out of India South Asia are standard 3/8" so they are easy to do as well as the Rite bobbin. You can even use them on the Rite Shorty without getting in the way while tying. I just made them easy to install like a pen clip and they slide on tight, and you can take it off when you don't want it on, The soldered bobbins like Dr Slick Renzetti etc: are a different story. I'm working on a design for them right now. Below is a Rite bobbin with one installed.

 

I didn't make it with the notion of selling it for profit. I just made it for myself initally, to speed up my own tying.

 

 

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