trimming hackle

[firedad 0]

How big of a deal is it to trim hackle to size? As a beginner I don't have a lot of good hackle. Since I've started, prices and availability have both been ridiculous. I tie mostly small flies, so if I don't have the right size hackle I've trimmed a little. It doesn't look as good obviously, but is that the extent of it?

[NJ All Day 0]

I think trimming the Hackle takes away some if not most of the floatability.

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

a Spanish fly tier I can't remember his name but he ties quite a few flies that require using oversized hackle that is then trimmed as for float ability many will tell you it effects it adversly but I beg to differ due to the pure science of it since the hackle is what holds the fly afloat by suspending it on the miniscus of the water its like laying on a bed of nails the weight is distributed evenly acrossed the nails points which breaks down to so much lbs per square inch now if you increase the size of the nail points you increase the amount of weight they can hold such as the same with hackle when you trim the hackle you actually increase the size of the point

[JSzymczyk 0]

a fly with trimmed hackle usually looks pretty terrible. Always reminds me of the "made in china" flies in blister packs I'd see in the fishing aisle of K-Mart as a kid. As far as whether it catches fish or not, only the fish will tell. For traditional style dry flies, I think trimmed hackle won't float nearly as good as quality dry fly hackle.

 

as for availability, neck hackle still seems to be widely available- the idiots and girls have only grabbed saddle hackles. A good dry fly neck has a range of great hackle from tiny tiny to a few good woolly bugger hackles. It might seem expensive but a neck lasts a LONG time and IMO the hackles are normally "better" for dries than saddle hackle.

[JSzymczyk 0]

as for float ability many will tell you it effects it adversly but I beg to differ due to the pure science of it since the hackle is what holds the fly afloat by suspending it on the miniscus of the water its like laying on a bed of nails the weight is distributed evenly acrossed the nails points which breaks down to so much lbs per square inch now if you increase the size of the nail points you increase the amount of weight they can hold such as the same with hackle when you trim the hackle you actually increase the size of the point

 

 

BUT you are not considering the flexibility of the natural hackle barb/barbule tips against the meniscus...

 

in other words, I could probably take a fly rod blank ---analogous to an untrimmed hackle barb--- and poke you in the gut ---meniscus--- with it and it likely would bend quite a lot and resist the force. If I cut two or three feet off it then poked you in the gut with it, it might run you through.

[utyer 0]

Ok, just how small are we talking about, size 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, what. For sizes down to 20, a comparadun with fine deer hair wings will float with out the use of any hackle. Tiny comparaduns can be built using a clump of hackle barbs tied in like you would the deer hair, and flaired out the same way. CDC used as wings, and stray fibers as legs will float tiny flies, even a few strands of zlon for legs will float small flies. I have plenty of dry fly saddles, and necks, but they get little use since I tie mostly comparaduns for floating flies.

[FrequentTyer 0]

as for float ability many will tell you it effects it adversly but I beg to differ due to the pure science of it since the hackle is what holds the fly afloat by suspending it on the miniscus of the water its like laying on a bed of nails the weight is distributed evenly acrossed the nails points which breaks down to so much lbs per square inch now if you increase the size of the nail points you increase the amount of weight they can hold such as the same with hackle when you trim the hackle you actually increase the size of the point

 

 

BUT you are not considering the flexibility of the natural hackle barb/barbule tips against the meniscus...

 

in other words, I could probably take a fly rod blank ---analogous to an untrimmed hackle barb--- and poke you in the gut ---meniscus--- with it and it likely would bend quite a lot and resist the force. If I cut two or three feet off it then poked you in the gut with it, it might run you through.

 

I've got to agree with riffleriversteelheadslayer on this one. The flex probably has very little to do with whether or not the barb pierces the film. In fact, stiffer hackle floats better. There are lots of references to trimming hackle on the bottom of the fly to change the profile or clear the hook gap, and I'm sure most of us have done this on the stream from time to time.

What will change though is the diffraction pattern created by the hackle tips dimpling the surface. And, as pointed out, it doesn't look good to us humans.

You could consider trying some parachute patterns where an over sized hackle wont be as much of an issue.

[JSzymczyk 0]

I will step back then, and stop my thoughts with K-Mart. That's as far as I needed to go anyhow.

[NJ All Day 0]

I would say the only way to find out is to take a fly that has appropriate sized Hackle on it, and take an identical fly except one with trimmed Hackle and put them in a clear glass to test their buoyancy, and the 'foot prints' they leave on the water.

[Swedish trout hunter 0]

I agree with NJ All day. throw two flies in a glass of water and see witch one stays above surface the longest. I don´t think there will be any real difference however. A hackle fiber is not hollow and therefore there is no capillary effect taking place in either the cut or the uncut fibers. So they should sink pretty evenly I think. But I have been known to be wrong before and learning new things is always fun I think that I will have to try this out for myself tomorrow.

[firedad 0]

Thanks for the replies. I agree it doesn't look as good, I will test them out in a glass of water as you said and post what I find.

[FrequentTyer 0]

I will look forward to reading the results of the experiment! But I'll warn you, it takes an awfully long time for a fly to sink in a glass of water

[Swedish trout hunter 0]

I put two red tags in my bathtub about 1 hour ago (thinking that the surface tension in the tub would be less than in a narrow glass). Neither of them are sinking. I did however notice that the one with the cut fibers is leaning slightly to the right while the other one is laying straight with the hook straight down in to the water. It may be that the cut one would not stay afloat as long as the uncut one in water with a bit of motion in it, but otherwise I do not think it makes any difference at all. It is strictly a case of aesthetics.

[morfrost 0]

I put two red tags in my bathtub about 1 hour ago (thinking that the surface tension in the tub would be less than in a narrow glass). Neither of them are sinking. I did however notice that the one with the cut fibers is leaning slightly to the right while the other one is laying straight with the hook straight down in to the water. It may be that the cut one would not stay afloat as long as the uncut one in water with a bit of motion in it, but otherwise I do not think it makes any difference at all. It is strictly a case of aesthetics.

Swedish Trout Hunter

 

Surface tension is a property of a liquid resulting from molecular cohesive forces at or near the surface of the liquid such that the forces contract and the suirface of the liquid behaves somewhat like a stretched membrane. The surface tension is a property of the fluid in question. As such, the surface tension in a wide vessel or a narrow vessel are the same, as long as they both contain the same liquid..

[jhammer 0]

I tried cutting hackle on flies before. To me, it just looked unnatural for some reason. I didn't like how the flowing hackle was suddenly "stubbly."