Balsa frog dilemma

[HOLMAN 0]

Here is a balsa frog that I just made, but my dilemma is what type of hook I should use and how to install hook, I assume I can cut with dremel underside as I somewhat did with cork frog, but the cork frog was my first and I want this to turn out better.Any suggedtions4 would bed great and should I use markers or acrylic paint. Also do I use clear nail polish over epoxy? Please help. I donte have a vast array of supplies north hooks, so I could take vrom some older lure from my spinning tackle.

[salty fly 0]

I have made a few balsa frogs simalar to yours,I dont have any pics sorry.I did articulated legs with hook point up,I used size 4 and 2.I articulated it with beading wire,I stole from my wife,I drilled small holes in to the rear of the frog.Then took the wire pinched it in half,placed the hook on the wire.After you have a folded wire with the hook on I placed three glass seed beads over the two ends of the wire,epoxy the wire into your drilled hole,makeing shure that the hook point is up.Finishing the frog legs,I tied on a piece of 50# mono that I will later use as a weed guard.Then I spun a small clump of green deer hair on to the middle of the shank of the hook,leaving room at the bend and the eye of the hook to tie in craft foam legs.The craft foam is in green,I cut out a frog leg shape place the foam frog leg over the eye of the hook,tie on right behind the the eye,then whip finish.the next step is to tie in at the start of the bent of the hook.Then push the foam frog leg over the hook point and pulling the 50# mono into the same hole as the hook point make a few wraps of thread whip finish.Ok we the the leg on,now its time for the weed guard,push the mono into the foam and into the eye of the hook.I tie in again,useing hackle pliers I pull the foam back from the eye,tie on on at the eye of the hook,makeing a few wraps that are not to tight.cutting the mono at the eye,I pull the mono in to the thread wraps,whip finish.To finish the legs I use sharpie marker in three colors of green,makeing it look frogie.then I put a coat of of epoxy over the foam leg.well I know this sounds like a lot of work,but it is fairly eazy.When fishing this frog the hook float and ride hook point up and with the weed guard it is really weed less,I can chuck it way into cover and rip it out of and over all the weeds.The articuated legs move in when striping,then on the pause the legs spread back out,giveing the frog great movement in the water.Its all fun messing around with differnt stuff.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Use a hacksaw or reciprocating saw blade in a handle so you can cut it manually. I usually file the waviness off the blade.

With balsa and other woods, I usually cut the hook slot first and carve the body as symmetrical as possible around the hook slot. Sometimes it is hard to get it symmetrical in a preformed (hand carved) body like you have.

Are you related to Fred Hannie?

Kirk

[HOLMAN 0]

I have made a few balsa frogs simalar to yours,I dont have any pics sorry.I did articulated legs with hook point up,I used size 4 and 2.I articulated it with beading wire,I stole from my wife,I drilled small holes in to the rear of the frog.Then took the wire pinched it in half,placed the hook on the wire.After you have a folded wire with the hook on I placed three glass seed beads over the two ends of the wire,epoxy the wire into your drilled hole,makeing shure that the hook point is up.Finishing the frog legs,I tied on a piece of 50# mono that I will later use as a weed guard.Then I spun a small clump of green deer hair on to the middle of the shank of the hook,leaving room at the bend and the eye of the hook to tie in craft foam legs.The craft foam is in green,I cut out a frog leg shape place the foam frog leg over the eye of the hook,tie on right behind the the eye,then whip finish.the next step is to tie in at the start of the bent of the hook.Then push the foam frog leg over the hook point and pulling the 50# mono into the same hole as the hook point make a few wraps of thread whip finish.Ok we the the leg on,now its time for the weed guard,push the mono into the foam and into the eye of the hook.I tie in again,useing hackle pliers I pull the foam back from the eye,tie on on at the eye of the hook,makeing a few wraps that are not to tight.cutting the mono at the eye,I pull the mono in to the thread wraps,whip finish.To finish the legs I use sharpie marker in three colors of green,makeing it look frogie.then I put a coat of of epoxy over the foam leg.well I know this sounds like a lot of work,but it is fairly eazy.When fishing this frog the hook float and ride hook point up and with the weed guard it is really weed less,I can chuck it way into cover and rip it out of and over all the weeds.The articuated legs move in when striping,then on the pause the legs spread back out,giveing the frog great movement in the water.Its all fun messing around with differnt stuff.

 

Thank you so much, wish I could see pic, that would really help, I will let it site for bit a practice on something else

[HOLMAN 0]

Use a hacksaw or reciprocating saw blade in a handle so you can cut it manually. I usually file the waviness off the blade.

With balsa and other woods, I usually cut the hook slot first and carve the body as symmetrical as possible around the hook slot. Sometimes it is hard to get it symmetrical in a preformed (hand carved) body like you have.

Are you related to Fred Hannie?

Kirk

 

Funny, wish I was I would be much better at this.

[salty fly 0]

I have made a few balsa frogs simalar to yours,I dont have any pics sorry.I did articulated legs with hook point up,I used size 4 and 2.I articulated it with beading wire,I stole from my wife,I drilled small holes in to the rear of the frog.Then took the wire pinched it in half,placed the hook on the wire.After you have a folded wire with the hook on I placed three glass seed beads over the two ends of the wire,epoxy the wire into your drilled hole,makeing shure that the hook point is up.Finishing the frog legs,I tied on a piece of 50# mono that I will later use as a weed guard.Then I spun a small clump of green deer hair on to the middle of the shank of the hook,leaving room at the bend and the eye of the hook to tie in craft foam legs.The craft foam is in green,I cut out a frog leg shape place the foam frog leg over the eye of the hook,tie on right behind the the eye,then whip finish.the next step is to tie in at the start of the bent of the hook.Then push the foam frog leg over the hook point and pulling the 50# mono into the same hole as the hook point make a few wraps of thread whip finish.Ok we the the leg on,now its time for the weed guard,push the mono into the foam and into the eye of the hook.I tie in again,useing hackle pliers I pull the foam back from the eye,tie on on at the eye of the hook,makeing a few wraps that are not to tight.cutting the mono at the eye,I pull the mono in to the thread wraps,whip finish.To finish the legs I use sharpie marker in three colors of green,makeing it look frogie.then I put a coat of of epoxy over the foam leg.well I know this sounds like a lot of work,but it is fairly eazy.When fishing this frog the hook float and ride hook point up and with the weed guard it is really weed less,I can chuck it way into cover and rip it out of and over all the weeds.The articuated legs move in when striping,then on the pause the legs spread back out,giveing the frog great movement in the water.Its all fun messing around with differnt stuff.

 

Thank you so much, wish I could see pic, that would really help, I will let it site for bit a practice on something else

My camera took a dump,I need to get a new one.I want to post a bunch of pics of flies on the database.I will let you know when I get those pics up.

[perchjerker 0]

Holman:

 

I use either Mustad #3366, their #333903 hump shank, or their #37187 Stinger hook. My first preference is the #3366. I put a double layer of a cotton sewing thread on the shank to be covered by the body, whip finish and cut off. I find that this seems to provide a better base on the hook for the glue to bond to. I have not had problems with bodies rotating on the hook shank with this as a base.

 

As Kirk says, use a piece of old hacksaw blade, and make a duct tape handle for it. I also use an X-Acto fine toothed saw on occasion. I prefer the hacksaw blade as it will more often make a cut wide enough for the hook shank with the first cut. The X-Acto blade is too thin to do this with. The reciprocating (Skil-Saw) blade will typically make an even wider cut; but, I have never used one. Mine get broken off into pieces too short top be useable! I am too cheap to dedicate a new one to such service. Ha!

 

perchjerker

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Holman:

 

...The reciprocating (Skil-Saw) blade will typically make an even wider cut; but, I have never used one. Mine get broken off into pieces too short top be useable! I am too cheap to dedicate a new one to such service. Ha!

 

perchjerker

 

Perch, if you lay the blade on a flat surface on its side and take a steel file flat across the side of the blade either hacksaw or reciprocating blade, you can file the waves down some, flip it and repeat on the other side. This reduces the width of the cut. It won't be as straight as an X-Acto Razor saw but it will be straighter than out the pack but wider than the razor saw from X-Acto. If it isn't wide enough, just fold a piece of medium grit sandpaper and run it through the slot to widen it a little. I like doing that to get the loose pieces of wood or foam from the slot to give the glue a good seat. Got the filing the saw blade tip from Tom Nixon's book, always did do the sandpaper.

 

Kirk

[perchjerker 0]

Kirk:

 

I think you misunderstood my comment. What I was trying to convey is that the reciprocating saw blade will make a nice wide cut for accepting a thread wrapped hook, and that the only reason I don't use them is that I am "too cheap" to use a new blade for this. I use only older hacksaw blades that no longer cut metal. My only 'old worn out' reciprocating saw blades are all broken ones, and the pieces are too short to conveniently use.

 

I think it was in Nixon's book where he recommended breaking the hacksaw blade in half and making a "handle " out of tape of some sort (I use masking tape). This is what I do, and I find that the half-blade is rigid enough the enable me to make a nice straight cut.

 

Glad you made the point about wrapping sandpaper around the thinner X-Acto blades. The point should be helpful to many who read these posts.

 

My little NIXON slope-cutting jig is close to 30 years old, and I love it. I made it right after I bought my copy of his book. There is, as you know, a wealth of information in it; and, none of it is really out-dated.

 

perchjerker

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Perch, funny how the written work can be so easily misunderstood but in this case to a good idea. While I only fold the sandpaper in half and use it with no additional rigid support,after you mention that you undersood me to fold it over the X-acto blade, I think I may try that as often the folded sandpaper alone especially after it wears a little gets a little flabby.

 

As for the saw blade, I didn't misunderstand you. Just that I'm in the habit of always sanding the hook slot to remove debris and errant grain pulled into the slot by the saw blade and I found the slot made by the wavy blade as it comes out the pack wounds up being a little to wide after sanding. By filing the waves down a bit like Tom recommends (I believe I read that in his book)the cut is less rough and by the time you sand it, ends up being the perfect width for the thread wrapped hook shank.

 

Kirk

[perchjerker 0]

Kirk:

 

I have never been overly concerned about having a smooth inner groove surface; as I am of the opinion that the 'rougher' surface provides a greater bonding surface area for the glue (epoxy), resulting in a better bond between the hook and the body. It has also been my experience that a well worn hacksaw blade cuts a fairly smooth groove to begin with.

 

Ain't it great to learn something new everyday?

 

perchjerker

[ditz2 0]

If you are doing large poppers you can also wrap the shank with chenile and then epoxy into the bottom slot or a drilled hole thru the body. The epoxy joint will be FAR stronger than either balsa or cork body. The joint itself will not fail. If white cedar is used the joint might fail but I doubt it.

 

Good carving!

[bowfin47 0]

With that name and an interest in balsa bugs, ya' gotta' see the bugs tyed by the master of balsa, innovator of foil poppers and knurled foil poppers, and the king of the pencil poppers, Mr. Walt Holman!

 

Here is a link to one of his:

http://montana-riverboats.com/?fpage=Fly-Tying/Walt-Holman

 

You may also wish to read these posting: http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=56554

 

Walt is a fabulous tyer and great gentleman. One of the very best!

 

I think that you'd learn a lot about hooks and balsa carving from Walt... but with that said, you're doing great work already!

 

Bowfin47

[perchjerker 0]

bowfin47:

 

I am familiar with Walt Holman's work, and somewhere I have a copy of his SBS for making them. It has been discussed before as to who was first making the foil-covered pencil poppers; he or Charlie Cypert here in Central Texas, as they are contemporaries, but a final decision was never reached. To me,it is irrelevant as to who first made them. Charlie taught me how to do it, and he turned out thousands by himself over the years, as he supplied the Orvis stores in both Houston and Dallas, and numerous other privately owned shops here in Texas, which are too numerous to list; and it wouldn't prove anything anyway. Let's just say that both men made significant contributions to the art, and much can be learned from both.

 

To the best of my knowledge, Charlie never made any other balsa bug than the Pencil Popper Minnow.

 

Cheers,

perchjerker