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I'm using a DanVise and have tied many many flys at this time.

 

But hear this. I have recently started doing something that makes a lot of sense. When I was a tool maker years ago we used a trick to hold hard materials in the toolmaker vises. We put paper between the tool steel and the vise jaws. It took a few hook grabs to get the trick down but now I place a magic object between my hook and my jaws. It does four amazing things. It gives me incredible grip on my hooks, let me say that again, I said incredible. It does not do ANY HARM TO ANY JAWS. It does not mark or harm the hook. It prevents me from cutting my thread or tensil on the hook point. That magic object is a small piece of the semi-hard tough clear plastic like most small store bought products come packaged in to prevent shop lifting. I cut a few pieces about 1/8" X 3/8" and fold them in half. Then I slip the hook bend in between the layers of the folded plastic and then put the sandwich into the vise. I have learned to trim that top corner so it isn't in the way and clamp in such a way that my hook point is not exposed outside the plastic. You will quickly figure out your own shape to make them which is best for you. I got the idea by watching some of the masters tie show class streamers using something similar for protecting the hooks from marks. I was so impressed with the grip using less vise stress that I now do that on every fly I tie. The cold fact is we are holding hardened hooks with hardened jaws... this is why we have various jaw problems.... hook after hook after hook until the jaws pay for it.

 

You owe to yourself to play around with it at least once. At first it is a little cluttzy. Remember, nothing is easy the first time. This gets just as easy as not using the sandwich combo in a few flys.

 

 

uh-oohh, now you've done it.... you've given away one of the last of the fly tying secret society ultra-top-mega-secrets.

 

 

I almost never have the need to cushion the jaws for smaller hooks, although there are some sizes/styles/brands which are more slippery than others. I have found some larger hooks, especially saltwater hooks, to be very slippery. For me, a small slip of printer paper folded in half has worked well.

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I should probably add that my budget is between $150-$300, but I might be persuaded to go as high as $350, if a convincing argument can be made.

 

I have been tying for nearly 40 years. I collect vises as well. I've had nearly all the vises made. In your price range, I would go with the Renzetti Presentation 3000 if you normally tie trout flies - particularly those under size 8 or so. It is true rotary. Made by a company that will most probably be int he business for a great while. It has the screw type jaw action which i prefer over the cam type.

It is buttery smooth and has a lot of room near the jaw points for access to your fly.

It would stretch your budget, but well worth it IMHO

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I'm using a DanVise and have tied many many flys at this time.

 

But hear this. I have recently started doing something that makes a lot of sense. When I was a tool maker years ago we used a trick to hold hard materials in the toolmaker vises. We put paper between the tool steel and the vise jaws. It took a few hook grabs to get the trick down but now I place a magic object between my hook and my jaws. It does four amazing things. It gives me incredible grip on my hooks, let me say that again, I said incredible. It does not do ANY HARM TO ANY JAWS. It does not mark or harm the hook. It prevents me from cutting my thread or tensil on the hook point. That magic object is a small piece of the semi-hard tough clear plastic like most small store bought products come packaged in to prevent shop lifting. I cut a few pieces about 1/8" X 3/8" and fold them in half. Then I slip the hook bend in between the layers of the folded plastic and then put the sandwich into the vise. I have learned to trim that top corner so it isn't in the way and clamp in such a way that my hook point is not exposed outside the plastic. You will quickly figure out your own shape to make them which is best for you. I got the idea by watching some of the masters tie show class streamers using something similar for protecting the hooks from marks. I was so impressed with the grip using less vise stress that I now do that on every fly I tie. The cold fact is we are holding hardened hooks with hardened jaws... this is why we have various jaw problems.... hook after hook after hook until the jaws pay for it.

 

You owe to yourself to play around with it at least once. At first it is a little cluttzy. Remember, nothing is easy the first time. This gets just as easy as not using the sandwich combo in a few flys.

 

 

uh-oohh, now you've done it.... you've given away one of the last of the fly tying secret society ultra-top-mega-secrets.

 

 

I almost never have the need to cushion the jaws for smaller hooks, although there are some sizes/styles/brands which are more slippery than others. I have found some larger hooks, especially saltwater hooks, to be very slippery. For me, a small slip of printer paper folded in half has worked well.

 

 

Cn you imagine a commercial tier doing that?

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I'm using a DanVise and have tied many many flys at this time.

 

But hear this. I have recently started doing something that makes a lot of sense. When I was a tool maker years ago we used a trick to hold hard materials in the toolmaker vises. We put paper between the tool steel and the vise jaws. It took a few hook grabs to get the trick down but now I place a magic object between my hook and my jaws. It does four amazing things. It gives me incredible grip on my hooks, let me say that again, I said incredible. It does not do ANY HARM TO ANY JAWS. It does not mark or harm the hook. It prevents me from cutting my thread or tensil on the hook point. That magic object is a small piece of the semi-hard tough clear plastic like most small store bought products come packaged in to prevent shop lifting. I cut a few pieces about 1/8" X 3/8" and fold them in half. Then I slip the hook bend in between the layers of the folded plastic and then put the sandwich into the vise. I have learned to trim that top corner so it isn't in the way and clamp in such a way that my hook point is not exposed outside the plastic. You will quickly figure out your own shape to make them which is best for you. I got the idea by watching some of the masters tie show class streamers using something similar for protecting the hooks from marks. I was so impressed with the grip using less vise stress that I now do that on every fly I tie. The cold fact is we are holding hardened hooks with hardened jaws... this is why we have various jaw problems.... hook after hook after hook until the jaws pay for it.

 

You owe to yourself to play around with it at least once. At first it is a little cluttzy. Remember, nothing is easy the first time. This gets just as easy as not using the sandwich combo in a few flys.

 

Hmmm... color me an odd duck, but if I had a flytying vise, a tool which is designed to hold securely a hook for me to dress a fly on, and I was obliged to add a "magic object" into the mix, I would look for a better designed vise.

 

Your mileage may, and clearly does, vary :unsure:

 

Cheers,

Hans W

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Cn you imagine a commercial tier doing that?

 

Nope. And I also can't imagine a commercial tier clamping a 3/0 3x strong saltwater stainless hook into a vise and bending it into a pretzel. But I see it in advertisements touting how "strong" a given vise is.

 

The "commercial" Salmon Fly artists in fact do use paper and plastic slips, so they don't mar the finish of their expensive hooks with jaw pressure sufficient to hold securely.

 

There are certain situations in any engineering endeavor where desired results just don't happen. Use enough types of hooks in any set of hardened steel jaws, and you will find one which just acts "slippery". Some expensive vises machine recessed pockets in the jaws which is a direct admission that some combinations of jaw material and hook material (usually plating or coating, not the steel itself although it could be) don't hold well.

 

I haven't seen it much with "normal" trout fly type hooks, perhaps standard wire size 6 to 20 or thereabouts, which any decent vise should hold. After all, the hook only NEEDS to be held tight enough to break whatever thread is being used. If you're using 70 denier nylon with an average strength of (for example) 10 ounces, why do you need your vise adjusted to hold a tuna hook so it can be bent over itself? The VAST majority of tiers I have met seem to crank their vise jaw tension down way way too much.

 

I have some Mustad 3407DT saltwater hooks which are just slippery as hell. They are fine hooks, but I have tried to get them to hold tight in Peak, Dyna-King, Renzetti, and HMH vises with no luck. The plating on the hooks is just slippery. A folded piece of paper solves the issue in any vise and jaw pressure can be set back to a very reasonable level.

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The 34007 are slippery as well. Never tried paper to help hold them in place.

 

 

Gee, what vise do you folks use????

as stated:

I have some Mustad 3407DT saltwater hooks which are just slippery as hell. They are fine hooks, but I have tried to get them to hold tight in Peak, Dyna-King, Renzetti, and HMH vises with no luck. The plating on the hooks is just slippery. A folded piece of paper solves the issue in any vise and jaw pressure can be set back to a very reasonable level.

 

why is this such a big deal? In most other activities where I've seen steel parts clamped into a vise where they need to be held absolutely secure, some sort of vise jaw cushioning is used or a custom form is made to hold the parts exactly. About 10,000 common gunsmithing tasks come to mind. Removing or installing a threaded barrel into an action, hard wood or even lead vise jaw pads are used to grip the barrel. It's exactly the same concept as a steel hook being gripped by steel vise jaws. In jewelry making, wood, leather, or other vise pads are used to hold pieces securely without screwing them up by applying excessive pressure.

 

Again, a fly vise does not NEED to hold a hook any "tighter" than the max thread pressure which will be applied. Sometimes, hard steel vise jaws just won't grip a certain size/style/material of hook. I can't believe you haven't run into this at some point before.

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There was no issue with my regal but it has pocketed jaws. But i had issues with lesser vises. No real issues with my norvise either. But those mustad hooks are prone to slippage due to there finish.

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There was no issue with my regal but it has pocketed jaws. But i had issues with lesser vises. No real issues with my norvise either. But those mustad hooks are prone to slippage due to there finish.

 

 

 

 

 

These Jvice jaws would not slip. I would be willing to bet.

 

 

 

IMG_2210.jpg

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There was no issue with my regal but it has pocketed jaws. But i had issues with lesser vises. No real issues with my norvise either. But those mustad hooks are prone to slippage due to there finish.

 

 

 

 

 

These Jvice jaws would not slip. I would be willing to bet.

 

 

 

IMG_2210.jpg

 

 

They don't.

I have tied lots of saltwater flies on 34007 hooks and have never had one slip in the jaws of my Jvice.

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You are correct. As I said a couple days ago in my post above:

 

Some vises machine recessed pockets in the jaws which is a direct admission that some combinations of jaw material and hook material (usually plating or coating, not the steel itself although it could be) don't hold well.

 

Your JVice jaws clearly have pockets machined into one side.

 

We're disagreeing about nothing here...

 

Also, 3407DT Mustad hooks are not the same as 34007 Mustad hooks. The 3407DT are "dura tin" plated, the 34007 are stainless.

 

On the very rare occasion when I have a particular type or size of hook tend to slip in the jaws of my Peak or HMH, I find it well within my budget of both money and time to put a small piece of copy paper around the hook.

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You are correct. As I said a couple days ago in my post above:

 

Some vises machine recessed pockets in the jaws which is a direct admission that some combinations of jaw material and hook material (usually plating or coating, not the steel itself although it could be) don't hold well.

 

Your JVice jaws clearly have pockets machined into one side.

 

We're disagreeing about nothing here...

 

Also, 3407DT Mustad hooks are not the same as 34007 Mustad hooks. The 3407DT are "dura tin" plated, the 34007 are stainless.

 

On the very rare occasion when I have a particular type or size of hook tend to slip in the jaws of my Peak or HMH, I find it well within my budget of both money and time to put a small piece of copy paper around the hook.

 

 

I'm not disagreeing. Just stating that I've never had the problem cited with any of the vises i've had. Well, perhaps with my first vise, the Thompson A - so long ago, I just don't remember. The well made vises since then have never had that problem.

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