Deer hair spinning

[Aqueous1025 0]

Ok, I am going to try spinning again to try and get a hang of it this time around. I have a couple of questions though

 

I see mule deer hair, deer belly hair, and spinning deer hair as choices listed for spinning in J Stockards web site. Is there certain advantages or properties to these three different hairs for spinning??

 

The other thing I have a question about are the spun flies I saw in the Hatches 2011 issue. How do you control the hair when spinning to come up with all the neat patterns I saw?? I was particularly impressed with the one that looked like a freshwater figure eight pufferfish, I think they called it a frog though. Circles within cirles of colors, sorry it just baffles my mind.

 

I figured I would ask, I am going to order all three types of hair to play with for awhile to see if I can get the hang of it all. I would appreciate any help or comments that would get me going in the right direction. I figure the more knowledge I can get the better this will go :-)

 

Thank you

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

any of the 3 are perfect for spinning my favorite is belly hair as it seems to be the brightest in color now for your second question the circles inside of circles are not from spinning hair it is from a technique called stacking you tie the hair into the area you want it and cinche it down without letting it rotate around the hook shank then tie a contrasting color right in at the same tie in spot

[agn54 0]

Here is an awesome video on tying a deer hair bug. It is pretty long so it is in several parts (

)

[Guest]

Spinning hair for bugs is by nemisis. I've tried and tried and just can't get it. Maybe someday

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

be sure to order some GSP thread while your at it

[ditz2 0]

GSP thread or real heavy nylon. I have only used dear body hair. Cut off a bunch that is about the diameter of a pencil and lay it on top of the hook and lightly wind about 3 wraps around the center of the hair length and just pull on the thread and it should just start spinning around the hook and flair out at the same time. Bring the thread out to just in front of the hair and repeat the same action. Now put your thumb and fore finger nail at the hook and pack the hair towards the back as tight as you can get it. Keep repeating until you have as much hair on the hook as you want. Don't for get to remove all the under fur prior to placing on the hook and spinning. The under hair will just get soggy and ruin the look of the finished bug. Spinning is about the first thing I learned so it can't be too hard.

 

The color patterns are done by 'stacking' as mentioned above. Just place a batch of contrasting color where you want it, again with the hair laying along the shank and with a couple of wraps around the hair, just cinch it down. Vary the amount to how big of color patch you want. Put another color in the center the last color if desired. I almost never do it but it sure makes some pretty bugs. and it also makes the hair very thick and also improves the floating characteristics. Have fun. A messy job and time consuming but lots of fun.

'

Just as a side note. The hair will spin better on a bare hook shank than one that has been base wrapped all the way from the eye.

[Bugsy 0]

You can spin any hollow hair. Cow elk and antelope are great for larger flies, such as bass bugs. Antelope is particularly nice for building up large hair bodies, but it can't be used for forming hair collars due to broken tips. At the other end of the size spectrum, some tyers like caribou for spun bodies on trout-sized irresistibles and the like; however, I find it too soft ...but it's that softness is why it appeals to some. In the middle, you've got the various deer products that work reasonably (or extremely) well on just about everything from trout to pike. White deer belly comes in an array of colors, but the hair shaft is larger than deer body hair, making it less suited for small flies. Most of the deer body hair that you'll find for clipped bodies will be either mule or whitetail, but mule deer dominates. If you want to tie muddlers and sculpins, you can't go wrong with some tanned patches of mule deer body in natual and/or dyed.

 

Various techniques are used when spinning deer hair. Some tyers prefer to spin on a bare shank, while others like a base layer of thread beneath. Some use smaller "pencil-sized" chunks of hair, while others get better results with larger pieces. The prefered number of loose wraps varies, too. You have to find what works best for you, and there are many resources for information on the subject. Just keep practicing, over and over. Keep practicing until you can reliably reproduce clipped bodies/heads that are acceptable to your aesthetic standards. And test their durability; you'll be on your way when you can't easily twist the clipped body/head on the shank.

[JSzymczyk 0]

GSP thread or real heavy nylon.

'

Just as a side note. The hair will spin better on a bare hook shank than one that has been base wrapped all the way from the eye.

 

 

Spinning hair is very difficult to type instructions for... but pretty easy if you can get someone to show you. While we tied deer hair bugs for decades before GSP thread was available, it has made such a huge difference in the process that in my opinion, it is as close to perfect as we can get. If you tie spun or stacked deer hair, use GSP thread. Period.

 

I must respectfully disagree that hair will always "spin better" on a bare hook shank. There are many times where spinning a bunch of hair, especially a large bunch of hair, is more controllable on a thread covered shank which offers a bit of texture for resistance. Again, almost impossible to explain in a few typed words, but pretty easy to demonstrate.

 

If you want to tie exceptionally dense, tight, great bugs, you need to learn to use fairly large bunches of deer hair. Your quality and ability will improve with practice.

[Aqueous1025 0]

Thank you guys very much, very helpful stuff.

 

I really like the video series, so nice to see it done, now I will know what I am not doing right by comparison LOL.

 

I found the GSP thread on J Stockards site, what size would be good there was 50 75 100 and 200. One reviewer said the 200 was really thick??

 

Again thank you very much for the help :-)

[bluegill576 0]

Thank you guys very much, very helpful stuff.

 

I really like the video series, so nice to see it done, now I will know what I am not doing right by comparison LOL.

 

I found the GSP thread on J Stockards site, what size would be good there was 50 75 100 and 200. One reviewer said the 200 was really thick??

 

Again thank you very much for the help :-)

I have a spool of the 200 and it is really thick. Your best bet would be the 100. Thats what I use for deer hair and ill use the 75 for warmwater flies and then 50 for trout flies if I'm going to use it, but most of te time I won't use it for anything but deer hair because I dont really like the way it doesn't stretch at all and is sometimes hard to cut the thread with my scissors.

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

100 is perfect for deer hair

[Wayne P 0]

I got started with Chris Helm's Spinning Hair DVD. It's real good. For material, you can call Chris at his shop and he'll send you good hair for what you need. That's the only place I am getting deer hair now.

[mybadhabit 0]

I got started with Chris Helm's Spinning Hair DVD. It's real good. For material, you can call Chris at his shop and he'll send you good hair for what you need. That's the only place I am getting deer hair now.

 

Speaking of Chris, does anyone know how he is doing? I know he spent some time in the hospital over the summer, and wondered how things came out.

 

Blane

[Bruce Derington 0]

Here is an awesome video on tying a deer hair bug. It is pretty long so it is in several parts (

)

This was actually a class we taught here on the forum, back when we had virtual tying, Ellet and I made an effort to teaching different classes, I tied while he recorded so thats why its so drawn out. We sure had fun with the virtual site but there wasn't enough interest in having anyone to step up and tie. Working with deer hair is quite easy and having the proper hair is critical.Do the right thing, get in touch with Chris Helm, buy one of his CD's and start crankin, Here is the actual fly we tied during that video

Bruce

[perchjerker 0]

riffleriver left out a very critical point in his comments on how to get the 'circles inside circles'. What he omitted is that you let the hair SPIN to the underside of the hook ONLY. There is a special technique for doing this, which mostly has to do with how you hold the hair so that you can stop it when it gets half-way around. Therre is also a difference in the direction youpull the thread to effect the movement of the hair around the hook---'straight' down for spinning; towards your chest for stacking. This gives you a 'foundation' to do the stacking on. To make a circle-within-a-circle, you first apply the outer circle color on top of the base, and do the very same thing with it that you did with the first bunch that went under the hook, but you keep it on top. You again repeat this with the color for the inner circle. To keep the 'face' of the mess flat, you need to divide the amount of hair in the various colors such that the total amount on top is approximately the same as that used for the bottom base batch. Otherwise, you will soon wind up with a pronounced slope to the face, either forward or backward, due to , and relative to, the amount of hair used to create a 'band' of hair around the hook. In reality, you are building 'bands' of hair around the hook just as you do when spinning.You just use an entirely different method of doing it.

 

I have personally assisted with the teaching of some 300 students over the past 14 years how to do this and they all have used Danville Flat Waxed Nylon (currently their 210 Denier thread) with absolutely no problems whatsoever. Their actual instructor tied deer hair only commercially for many years, and he still uses this thread. This is also the thread that I have used since starting with deer hair nearly 30 years ago. The secret is in learning how to properly work with the thread itself; not so much the type of thread. (You can spin and stack small deer hair bugs Rat Faced McDougals, etc., on #8 and 10 hooks using 6/0 nylon threads. GSP is not essential.)