Never tied a fly. Need help

[angelo24 0]

Hello everyone I'am new to this forum and fly tying. I also just got into fly fishing this past December and love it more than spin casting. Orite I have not yet got my fly tying material but very soon. I have been watching video's and reading a little online about fly tying. I know all about the tool's and vises cement's everything on that subject. There's alot of fur's/hackles/dubbing/feather's etc....So it's kinda funny when I ask this question you all will think I'am retarded but here it goes: What Fur's/hackle/feather's etc...go to what? Ok, I mean what material is use for dry flies/Nymph's/streamers and terrestrials/poppers?? Yea I know it sound's retarded but all the names and what they do is just making me crazy. Can anyone make me understand a little better? I love to create/customize and I have great idea's. Oh yea about the thread, are all them the same use? 3/0 or 6/0 floss and stuff. Is there a certain thread you need for dry or wet flies? it's all the same?. Yea just some dumb question's but I need to understand better than what already know.

 

 

Thanks: Angelo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cmb18895 0]

get charlie craven basic fly tying book

[Crackaig 0]

It would be more dumb not to ask!

 

You ask a very broad question, one that's not easy to answer in a concise way. Some materials are specific to only a few flies, others are very general. Just when you think you know what a material is used for, someone will come along and burst the bubble. A lot of the time you may not need the exact material to make something that will work. In lots of places, for example, seal's fur is now illegal. There are lots of substitutes for it though. Sometimes a material is specified for its properties. Most people associate CdC with dry flies. There are lots of wet fly patterns that use it as well.

 

Having confused the issues even more I'll suggest a way to get started. Avoid kits. You'll not use half the materials in the kit. Pick a couple of the flies you use a lot and are quite simple. Something like Wooly Buggers, and get the materials for them. Then have a go and tie a few. This summer I am running a workshop for people to learn to tie (might be a bit far for you to come to Scotland). By the end of it I expect them to have tied, Wooly Bugger, Black and Peacock Spider, Elk Hair Caddis, Black Pennel, Pheasant Tail & Hare's Ear nymphs.

My choice of these is based on teaching as many techniques as possible, from a small "pallet" of materials, in the time I have. The material list for these is-

Black 6/0 thread,

Chenille for bugger body,

Peacock herl,

Deer hair,

Hackle in black and grizzly,

Hare's mask for dubbing (literally the face and ears of a hare),

Marabou for bugger tail (In the photo I used arctic fox as it is one from my box for fishing with, note to self, get some marabou!)

Silver wire.

Cock pheasant tail.

Some of these you may be able to get from friends who shoot, others you will have to buy. These days I use wire from bead craft suppliers, it's less than 1/4 the price. Fuse wire in quite a fine size will do nicely.

The tool kit that they will be using is, vice, bobbin holder, hackle pliers, and a dubbing needle with a half hitch tool. Thats all you would need to get going.

Having someone teach you is the best way to get going. Thats not always possible. There are lots of books and videos out there, many of which presume some knowledge of fly tying. A friend of mine from South Africa has produced one that is very good. It is an ebook with links to videos of each technique. Essential Fly Tying Techniques by Tim Rolston. It is probably the next best thing to being taught.

If I can help any further I will, as, I'm sure, will many others here.

Give it a go, when you catch your first fish on a fly you have tied the feeling will be great. There is a double charge for this help though. When you catch the first fish on your own fly we want to see the photos, and what you learn please pass on.

Cheers,

C.

[utyer 0]

Your questions are not easily answered in a compact way. People write entire books on the subject of fly tying and the materials necessary. Two places you should go: first a library, check out some of the many books on fly tying, then find a fly fishing club in your area. Local chapters of Trout Unlimited shouldn't be to hard to find where you are. Most clubs have classes (usually in the winter months,) but you should be able to arrainge to sit down with someone and get an overview.

 

All you really need to get started are the basic tools: Vise, scissors, bobbin, bodkin (a needle stuck in a handle,) half hitch tool or whip finish tool, and a hair stacker. Then you need some hooks. An assortment of hooks in size 4 to 16 (they usually come in even numbers.) Then the only materials you need to start tying would be thread. You can tie quite an assortment of midge larvae, and other nymphs using nothing but thread. No the threads are NOT all the same, they come in many sizes most common sizing systems are the ought system (3/0, 8/0, and 8/0) are most common; then there is the denier weight method of sizing. Denier weights of 210, 180, 145, 110, 70, 45, are common. No matter what system is used, the heavier threads are for larger hooks and flies, 3/0 on size 4 and larger, 6/0 on size 6 to 12, and 8/0 on size 14 to 18. Once you start tying smaller than 18, you will need even finer (12/0 or 17/0) thread. Next problem, is that thread also comes in colors, dozens of colors. When your tying with thread only, the thread color becomes the color of your fly, so you may need different colors. Common colors are white, then cream, tan, olive, and gray in light medium and dark shades, red, pink brown, and black. A short cut to all the colors of thread, is to use permanent markers to touch up the thread as you tie. The light shades will take markers very well.

[angelo24 0]

Thanks for your advice all. Great feed so far just one more information But just the material is hard to understand. Deer hair, Fiber's, Feathers, hackle, quills, Hairs, and some many more material. Just need a little more info. What's good for dry flies/wet flies, popper's. I watched some fly tying video's and they got me a little confused cause this guy will use this and this guy will use this and even on the same fly. So still need help understanding some more. Sorry about these "deep concerns"

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

ok I am going to try to help you out a bit for hackles if the barbs are stiff they are for dry flies if they are soft and webby they are for wet flies or sub surface flies as they wont hold the fly on top of the water as for fur if its hollow and coarse like deer belly hair its for dry flies soft hair like squirrel hair is used for sub surface flies for the same reason as the hackle dubbing is a bit of a grey area but in general if it absorbs water its for wet flies if it sheds water its for dry flies

[Gene L 0]

You can buy popper bodies already formed, and they work great. You can tie bass flies with a minimum of skill and materials. Look up instructions for tying a Wooley Bugger, but some bucktails and some schlappen, and 3/0 thread and you're ready to go. 3/0 is heavier than 6/0 and is better suited for bass flies. (IMO)

 

Certainly, get a book, and if you fish for bass and panfish, the book should be geared toward that end. But first, get a basic fly tying book and it'll tell you how to handle thread, all about hooks, and other necessities in basic tying.

[flytire 0]

read this about feathers

 

http://www.eflytyer.com/materials/feathers.html

[kentuckytroutbum 0]

get charlie craven basic fly tying book

 

+1 on Charlie's book. It just about covers it all!

 

Bill

[angelo24 0]

Thank's all. I want to buy the least amount of material just so I can tie a few flies to see if I will enjoy it as much as I enjoy fly fishing. What's the least amount of material to purchase to begin tying? Just a few hook's etc.....By the way, How long can the material's last for before it run's out? Figure I ask

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

I say start with a wooly buggar since it is a good pattern will teach you a few techniques you will need in the future plus it catches fish.

colors of your choice

thread:6/0 black $1.65

hook:streamer hook size 2-10 $4.25

tail:marabou $2.25

hackle:grizzly $18.45

body:chenille $1.85

the materials for this fly can also be used on other fly patterns all prices come from J.Stockard our site sponsor

[Gene L 0]

For a wooley bugger, which is a great fly, you don't need an expensive hackle. Cheap black or olive hen hackle works just fine, as does schlappen on larger hooks. You might want to add some lead wire to get it down.

 

I've done a lot of bass fishing, and a size 4-6 will get it done, hook wise.

[angelo24 0]

Thank you all and mostly thank you utyer for making me understand so much now. I'am now understanding alot more thank heaven's but still having somes issue's and it's the hook size. Utyer sent me load's of information but the understanding the hook sizes still got me way off. Hook's ranging from #6-#20 3x long to 2x long, nymph, scud, eggs, streamers, curved, straight, etc.....Which hook sizes are all the best since I fish freshwater mainly Medium size Bass, Panfish, Pickerel, sometimes trout in stream's and also stocked trout. My main pattern's would be from Egg's, nymphs to hopper's some certain trout flies such as Adam's, drakes, Mosquito, wooly bugger's/popper's and mostly terrestrails (Ant's/bee's/etc). I have great idea's to give some Bass/Panfish flies a nice twist to but the hook sizes are unbelievable.

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

hooks are like drugs you will buy a million in a lifetime and still want more dry fly hooks usually are standard length and weight meaning they are the normal wire used to make the hook and the shank length is standard 2xl is 2 times the shank length so a size 10 dry fly might have a shank length of 10mm so a size 10 2xl hopper hook will have a shank length of 20mm and have a slight curve to it

[utyer 0]

First some pictures that may help clarify shank lengths in hooks: The first image shows several size 10 hooks. First a standard length dry fly hook back to back with a 2X Long nymph hook. Then the Standard dry fly hook back to back with a 1X Long Sproat bend nymph hook. The third picture shows a 3X Long and a 4X Long hook back to back.

 

First of all the difference in shank lenghts is very slight between these hooks. The 2X Long is not twice as long as a Standard shank (in the same sizes. Even the 4X long hook isn't twice as long 16mm for the dry, and 25mm for the 4X long almost but but not twice as long.

 

So what do these "X" designations all mean? First of all the hook SIZE is determined by the GAP (distance from the shank to the point. Then each maker determines what wire size and what length to make the hook. All size 10 standard dry fly hooks will be similar, but they wont be identical. Staying with a size 10 hook the maker can then make longer, and shorter hooks with the same gap all different lengths will carry a designation with a number and XL for long, and XS for short. The numbers relate to the lengths of STANDARD hooks 1, 2, 3, or 4 hook sizes longer than the size questions. Now hooks are sized on a scale that uses ALL the numbers, but most models will be made only in the even sizes (some models are made in the odd numbers,) but any given hook model will be made in every OTHER size.

 

STD is the standard length (I am using a size 10 for comparisons,)

1XL is a hook of the same size (10) with a shank that is a STD length for a size 9 (9 is the next size larger even if it isn't made.)

2XL is a hook of the same size (10) with a shank that is a STD length for a size 8 (8 is tow sizes larger than 10.)

3XL is a hook of the same size (10) with a shank that is a STD length for a size 7 (7 is three sizes larger than 10 and again won't be made.)

4XL is a hook of the same size (10) with a shank that is a STD length for a size 6 (6 is four sizes larger than 10.)

 

Longer hooks are made with shanks up to a 10XL.

 

The same thing happens in reverse with the short shanks.

 

1XS means a hook of a size (10) with a shank that is a STD length for a hook size 11 (11 is one size smaller than 10 and isn't made in this model. Short shank hooks are made up to with shanks down to 5 XS.

 

By now you should get the picture.

 

The system works the same way when looking at lighter or heavier wire hooks.

 

A 1XH is a hook that is made with a wire for the next larger size hook, and a 1XF is a hook made with a wire that is for the next smaller size hook. Fine hooks are usually either 1XF or 3XF, and heavy hooks can be as heavy as 5XH.

 

Hope this clears up some of the confusion in all the different size 10. There are of course other factors that can be thrown into the mix, like up eyes, down eyes, straight eyes, different bends, different curves to the shanks, different point and barb shapes, and different finishes or material used in the wire it self. Some times it takes three or four extra lines on the package to specify all the special features of any given hook.