Painting eyes on flies

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

And you have probably already had children, for the young uns like us its not a good idea to handle it if you plan on having kids.

[Peterjay 0]

Gimme a break - we're talking about lead, not plutonium. The notion that handling a few dumbbell eyes is going to give you frankenkids is ludicrous.

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

Gimme a break - we're talking about lead, not plutonium. The notion that handling a few dumbbell eyes is going to give you frankenkids is ludicrous.

 

Hey man i just listen to what my doctor says, and if you google search it doesn't sound like it is a good idea...

 

"Low levels of lead exposure can cause a variety of illnesses and have deleterious reproductive effects in men and women including lower sperm count and spontaneous abortion"

 

There is a whole bunch of other negative effects associated with being exposed to lead and i dunno Capt Bob said he has been handling it since the 80's!

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Without a doubt lead is bad stuff, and limiting your exposure is wise (that's one of the reasons I quit doing my own lead molding and actually have a professional outfit doing all my jigheads)... That said, handling lead is a very, very minor exposure as far as I'm concerned (and since I do quite a bit of powder coating jigheads I'm very careful about exposure to fumes -powder coating requires that you heat each head before dipping), work in a very well vented area, etc. The biggest risk most face are environmental issues, particularly if living in older run down buildings in inner city areas where most of the old paint was lead based and badly flaking. That's a very valid concern since infants and children raised in such environments have been shown to have lead exposure issues that can actually be measured.... And that's also why the EPA got involved in regulating paint manufacture and monitor to make sure lead based paints aren't being used for interior work any more...

 

Handling the stuff (as long as you're careful, keep it vented, and wash your hands) by an adult isn't a problem that I'm aware of. I'm certain there'd be issues for workers if that was the case (and you can be pretty sure the EPA would be up everyone's nose if there was the slightest cause...). When it comes to toxic exposure I think we need to be careful not to jump to conclusions, look at each issue carefully, and craft national policy that can actually be defended, is science based (and make sure that science isn't two parts speculation, etc.)

 

I'll get down off of my soapbox again....

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Bob,one more question about the paint. Do you use the Glossy, Semi-gloss or flat?

 

Forgive me for being so aggravating.

 

Kirk

[tidewaterfly 0]

First, Doctors will tell you all kinds of things! They're not always correct!

 

To add to what Capt Bob has said, elemental lead poses little health risk. The problem is lead oxide & other lead compounds, such as was used in paints & gasolines. Lead itself is not soluble, so it cannot be absorbed into your blood, but the oxide & other compounds can.

 

I spent a lot of time making lures too commercially, and have been doing so for a long time. My 4 kids all have grown up perfectly healthy. My health, other than just getting older is pretty good too!

 

I also have tried to keep up with a lot of the concerns & "science" involving the use of lead, particularly for fishing. The only part of Capt Bob's comments I disagree with is lead is not entirely stable in saltwater. The only thing needed to oxidize lead is oxygen. However, the "salt's" in saltwater does slow down the process or by reacting with the lead to form other compounds of which some are less soluble. Any water with a high O2 content will cause lead to oxidize, which is in turn soluble in water to some degree. Either way, any lead exposed to air will oxidize, so it doesn't matter if it's used in saltwater or fresh. Painting lead, and especially with some types of paint such a powder coating significantly slows down the oxidation process. Plus, many of the "lead" products we use are actually alloys, which have other metals mixed with lead, such as tin, bismuth, or antimony which also reduces the oxidation process, because these elements do not oxidize as quickly as lead. Tin hardly oxidizes at all. Even arsenic has been used as an additive to lead in the past, which is much more of a health hazard than lead ever would be.

 

IMO, the biggest risk factor with lead is when its ingested by wildlife, particularly birds. They're digestive system needs grit to aid in reducing what they eat, and I expect lead is ingested as grit, not as food. Unfortunately, lead oxidizes quickly, so that's likely what kills these birds, because once it does oxidize it can be absorbed into their bodies & the concentration would be extremely high. This would work the same with us. Eat a piece of lead & it would most likely make you very sick. May not kill you, but if not treated could possibly or may contribute to further health issue. Don't eat the lead!

 

Handling lead, and particularly oxidized lead can over time cause health issues. If you take precautions, such as wearing gloves & working in a well ventilated area, the risk is minimized. I even wear a respirator when I pour lead. Still, lead can be handled safely & with no more health risk than what we're already exposed to everyday. Even exposure to the Sun is often more of a risk.

 

As far as fishing tackle, small sizes, and more so in fields than in water, even in freshwater could be a potential hazard to wildlife, but only if they ingest it. In my area, the silt on the bottom of most waters would more than likely bury any lead, so I doubt it's the problem that's reported.

 

In agricultural fields, where lead might be picked up, it's certainly a much higher risk. But, any size lead particle over about a 1/4 inch is not likely to be ingested, it's too big!

 

The other thing that doctors & environmentalist seldom mention, is that lead is an element that occurs naturally in nature, so there may already be a certain amount there & more so in some areas. So, the whole lead issue cannot be blamed entirely on sporting goods use of lead.

[Chefben4 0]

A little credentials on me for this subject.. I have a BS in Occupational Safety and Health. Have been in manufacturing and now government. I am also an officer on a large hazmat response team and a member of a federal bioterrorism task force. In manufacturing I was a safety specialist for a solar company where our primary process was soldering with lead! So needless to say I am pretty well versed in lead and its toxicity.

 

Now with that out of the way let me give my $.02. Take it for what you will..

 

In general lead isn't much of an issue when you touch it. It is not absorbed through the skin well, if at all. Our skin acts as a barrier to things like this and protects us. The toxicity of the lead is really dependent on the physical characteristics of the lead in question (ie powder, dust, fumes). Some forms of powdered lead can leech through your skin and cause high lead levels in your blood. These would need to be fine powders with a high lead content repeatedly applied to the skin (make-up, tainted sunscreen). Dangers of lead occur when fumes are inhaled from processes, such as soldering, or ingested, like when people eat lead paint chips.

 

How do you protect yourself?

-keep your hands away from your mucous membranes (eyes, nose, mouth) while working with lead in any form

-Wash your hands after handling it

-Do not eat or drink while working with lead

-if you have cuts, abrasions, or other openings in your skin cover them while working with lead

 

In short, you and your future children are not in danger from tying flies with lead eyes (in which most are coated anyhow). Just be smart about it. Certainly if you tie flies for a living and are dealing with commercial numbers its not a bad idea to take some precautions.

 

The real issues with lead based fishing products are of course the toxicity when the fish ingest it and then we eat it. This is a whole seperate subject that I'm not even gonna touch.

 

That's all for now..

[Peterjay 0]

Thanks for the information Ben, but you forgot the most serious danger of all. Indeed, I came very close to severe lead poisoning on at least a couple of occasions: once, for riding a cow without the farmer's permission, and another incident that featured a tent, a teenage girl, and an enraged father. Nasty stuff, lead.

[Chefben4 0]

Hahahahha. Yes, lead bullets are a bit#%. Hell to clean the residue from your barrel too

[Peterjay 0]

Hahahahha. Yes, lead bullets are a bit#%. Hell to clean the residue from your barrel too

 

Amen to that - if I'd taken the time to clean the residue from my barrel, the enraged father would have gotten me for sure. I was lucky to make it into the woods as it was.

[Piker20 0]

Amen to that - if I'd taken the time to clean the residue from my barrel, the enraged father would have gotten me for sure. I was lucky to make it into the woods as it was.

 

 

:lol: :lol:

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

I guess my worry about using it is not so much of a worry after all if precautions are taken, yet the main reason to switch is an environmental one hence why it is banned in some watersheds. Glad i got some definitive answers about it, and sorry for bringing up this can of worms! I will continue with tungsten and leadfree wire and hug trees