Making popper bodies

[eastern fly 0]

I'm glad to see someone brings this up. I have tryed the Dremel before. Every time I do mine it just flies off. I was using a finish nail.

 

Kevin

[perchjerker 0]

I have been making my own foam bodies from 'Fun Foam' for about 15 years now, and based on his photos in his link, as posted above, I make mine the same way Coach Bob does. After the various colored layers have been glued together, I cut rectangular blanks from the resultant 'multi-layered block', cut a slit in the bottom, and then glue the hook in (this puts the hook near the bottom of the bug where, in my opinion, it is supposed to be and where it serves as a ballast. Thus installed, the hook serves as a 'handle' for turning the body as you sand off the foam to the desired shape---not unlike trimming deer hair bugs.

 

I do not use the 'grinding' tolls that are made for the Dremel, as depicted in Coach Bob's pics. Instead, I use the sanding drums, but only after a major modification! The available grits are way too coarse,and will eat up the foam in a heartbeat. I use sandpaper with the grits ranging from 600 to 1000. I cut the sandpaper into strips the width of the drums, and cut the strips to length. I then glue the strips to the drums using a good "contact" cement. This may seem like a lot of extra work, but I find that I can do a half dozen or so drums In about 30 minutes, excluding the 20-30 minute 'drying time' before attaching the sandpaper to the drum.

 

The only 'aggravation' is the handling of the drums after the application of the cement---they tend to stick to everything, including your finger tips. To minimize this problem, I first slip them onto a piece of snug-fitting dowel. The dowel is then suspended between two supports for the drying time. Such a modified drum is good for many bodies (I have never kept count).

 

ONE WORD OF CAUTION! Be sure to hold the hook with either a pair of haemostats or in a small pair of 'vise-grip' pliers. DO NOT TRY TO HOLD BETWEEN THE THUMB AND INDEX FINGER! This will work for a 'bug' or two, but then your fingers begin to tire, unbeknowst to you, and the next thing you know, you have a bug body bouncing off all of the walls. (DO NOT ASK ME HOW I KNOW THIS!!!)

 

All of the attached were made this way.

 

Cheers!

Frank

[perchjerker 0]

I have been making my own foam bodies from 'Fun Foam' for about 15 years now, and based on his photos in his link, as posted above, I make mine the same way Coach Bob does. After the various colored layers have been glued together, I cut rectangular blanks from the resultant 'multi-layered block', cut a slit in the bottom, and then glue the hook in (this puts the hook near the bottom of the bug where, in my opinion, it is supposed to be and where it serves as a ballast. Thus installed, the hook serves as a 'handle' for turning the body as you sand off the foam to the desired shape---not unlike trimming deer hair bugs.

 

I do not use the 'grinding' tolls that are made for the Dremel, as depicted in Coach Bob's pics. Instead, I use the sanding drums, but only after a major modification! The available grits are way too coarse,and will eat up the foam in a heartbeat. I use sandpaper with the grits ranging from 600 to 1000. I cut the sandpaper into strips the width of the drums, and cut the strips to length. I then glue the strips to the drums using a good "contact" cement. This may seem like a lot of extra work, but I find that I can do a half dozen or so drums In about 30 minutes, excluding the 20-30 minute 'drying time' before attaching the sandpaper to the drum.

 

The only 'aggravation' is the handling of the drums after the application of the cement---they tend to stick to everything, including your finger tips. To minimize this problem, I first slip them onto a piece of snug-fitting dowel. The dowel is then suspended between two supports for the drying time. Such a modified drum is good for many bodies (I have never kept count).

 

ONE WORD OF CAUTION! Be sure to hold the hook with either a pair of haemostats or in a small pair of 'vise-grip' pliers. DO NOT TRY TO HOLD BETWEEN THE THUMB AND INDEX FINGER! This will work for a 'bug' or two, but then your fingers begin to tire, unbeknowst to you, and the next thing you know, you have a bug body bouncing off all of the walls. (DO NOT ASK ME HOW I KNOW THIS!!!)

 

All of the attached were made this way.

 

Cheers!

Frank

[perchjerker 0]

Sorry for the duplication of the text, but can't get "Cancel" to work.

 

My apologies!!

 

Frank

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Balsa, cork, foam hard and soft - which is more durable. The soft foam is probably the most durable as far as staying on the hook and fishable, it is flexible so it doesn't chip when hit on something hard and compresses when the fish eats. Next would probably be the hard foam, pre-shaped bodies; they are light weight but hard as a rock and while your finish may wear off, you have to hit it on something pretty solid to make it chip but it will chip.

Balsa that has been soaked in a wood hardener or has an application of super thin CA is pretty close to being as hard on the surface as the hard foam but with the soft interior below the hardened exterior layer, it will chip a little easier and when water soaks in to the interior, it will soften and deteriorate pretty quickly.

Cork is only a little less durable than conditioned balsa and hard foam but probably a little more durable than unconditioned balsa.

That being said, all of the above popper materials when finished properly should land you in the neighborhood of two dozen fish and probably more.

 

Kirk

[CoachBob 0]

No. More professional as in better lines, smoother shapes, more diverse shapes, better performance in the water.

My point is that using the dremel only like a lathe limits your options for sanding. Carving foam with a grinding tip is IMHO better.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

I don't think there is any one tool that is "best"; it is what you are comfortable with and actually some tools do some jobs better than others. I use a dremel/mandrel for turning/tapering foam, a scissors for shaping foam, a dremel w/grinding bit for shaping foam or soft wood, emory boards for minor shaping and smoothing, a carpenter's drill on reverse w/mandrel and turn blanks on a tabletop belt sander for denser woods, regular sandpaper, a paring knife I have sharpened as a carving knife, etc. There are many tools that can do the job but no one really magic tool, the right tool in the wrong hands won't work while a less than ideal tool in the right hands may do the job.

As for hobby power tools, the dremel is probably the most versatile allowing you to incorporate many techniques and accomplish a multitude of tasks.

 

Kirk

[perchjerker 0]

Kirk...

 

Do you find soaking balsa in wood hardener makes them more durable than a good topcoat of 30-minute epoxy after they have been painted?

 

I agree with your comments about soft foam being more durable. Case in point; one of my fishing buddies had one that had accounted for 45 bass in the 2-5 lb range, and countless bluegills and redear sunfish the last count I had for it, and the only thing it needed was cataract surgery on the doll eyes, and it was still catching fish!

 

Frank

[Phish 0]

I use foam for mostly toothy critters as they are less work and more durable plus they tend to get destroyed quckly. Although I prefer balsawood, I have been using rather large wine cork for bodies with no problems. This foam frog body was turned down on a drill press with a nail. Taking your time is definetly the key. If it starts spinning then I just dab a a bit of superglue to hold it til finish sanding. Worked really good. Got to get some pictures of the air head poppers where no spinning is in volved but only carved by hand.

 

Finished popper.

What it looks like in the beginning before anything started.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Kirk...

 

Do you find soaking balsa in wood hardener makes them more durable than a good topcoat of 30-minute epoxy after they have been painted?...

 

Frank

 

Frank, I haven't used the commercial wood hardener but I know lure makers do that, I just bought some hand made balsa plugs from a guy in the UK and he told me he uses wood hardener for his pike plugs and he coats them with epoxy afterwards. I think that if the surface below the rigid epoxy topcoat is tough and rigid as well, the epoxy will last better.

 

I use thin set CA to soak in to the balsa, he said that is even harder than the wood hardener. It just soaks in to the outside layer maybe 1/32 but it toughens it so it won't dent on you as easily. I think it is more important with the typical lightweight (6 - 9 lb per ft) hobby shop balsa. I recently got some mid-weight balsa ( 9 - 12 lb per ft) from Lonestar Balsa in Texas and it is noticeably tougher; it still dents when working but not as easily - it has a little tighter grain and isn't as soft. They also have a heavyweight balsa (12 - 16 lb per ft) but that is getting close to being hardwood.

 

I haven't really tested the durability side by side in a scientific way, I don't really have many spots where there are that many fish.If the material below a rigid top coat is soft, then the only structural integrity you have is the thin layer of epoxy. Just a guess.

 

Phish, that is a great looking popper!!

Kirk

[Stippled Popper 0]

Phish, that is a great looking popper!!

Kirk

 

Phish: I must agree with Kirk.

 

If I may ask, what have you found to be the most effective clear coat to protect

the paint/foam body?

[bigfoot 0]

Phish where do you get foam in that big of a block?

[perchjerker 0]

Kirk...

 

Your answer makes sense. THANKS!

 

With respect to hardening wood, many woodturners, including myself, make our own hardener by dissolving Plexiglass in acetone. You can make it as thin, or as thick, as you like. Some of us even use both pressure and vacuum chambers (an old spray paint pot makes a good chamber) to effect good penetration; which is quite advantageous when trying to work with what we call 'punky' wood, which is the state of much of the spalted wood one encounters 'in the wild'. Simply soaking balsa for a given period of time in a thin solution of this stuff should do the same thing as the CA treatment.

 

This brings two questions to mind: 1) how long would you soak it; and, 2) how much weight would it add?

 

It only makes sense that CA, and possibly the plexiglass soup treatment, would have to be done AFTER the bodies have been shaped. In the case of the plexiglass soup mix, one should get rather deep penetration using either a vacuum or a pressure treatment (creosote treatment of wood uses both and they get complete penetration). Deeper penetration would be essential if you were to treat the balsa prior to shaping the bodies.

 

Never thought about the use of the more dense balsa. One of the exotic hardwood dealers here in Houston carries it; and I am always looking for an excuse to make the drive!

 

Interesting thoughts, either way.

 

Cheers,

Frank

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Frank, I'm not familiar with soaking. My guess would be that the longer you soaked it and the deeper it penetrated, the more weight it would add and possibly affect the floatation.

You are right about shaping first, in fact with the CA application, I even glue the body to the hook first. Much of my fine tuned shaping is done once the body is glued to the hook so I can balance it the best my eyes can manage to determine it is balanced.

Anyway, it is after I have it shaped on the hook that I apply the CA and actually dab off the excess. Going back to the soaking question, it doesn't totally saturate the body and affect its weight. On some bugs, after the treatment dries and I'm fine sanding it for paint preparation, I'll notice an out of balance side or something and have to get more aggressive with the sanding to balance it and have actually sanded through the CA treatment layer. So, it only goes skin deep but it is hard as a rock and makes a great painting/epoxying foundation.

Interesting about disolving plexiglass in acetone, you sound like a chemist not a woodworker!

 

Kirk

[Foamation 0]

Hey hang, I like in the options here. I have been shaping foam for about 15 years and have tried everything and I mean everything. I have shaped and I have lathed poppers and divers. I think that my success has come from the lathe rather than shaping still. I have been able to shape and sand the finish the product better than anything I have seen on the market. "not bragging but from hours of time on the lathe" The best coating I have come across is from Cascade Crest . I have made my own used others on the market and nothing holds better to heat or cold better than there foam paint and sealant.