deerhair

[Piker20 0]

I am using deer belly hair and I am (was) happy that I was really stacking it on tight and I am generally happy with how it spins.

When I get to cutting it I find that if I leave it long enough to mimic the examples in books or here on the forum, the hair doesn't look tight enough. You can see between the follicles as opposed to a wall of hair. If I trim it closer it will look tight but now the hair is too trimmed to look right.

 

Do I need to look for hides with longer follicle length so it trims back better or am I just being a wuss when it comes stacking each layer and need to force more and more hair on?

 

Edit, another thought is when I cut the tips off for the stacks that follow the first stack, should I be cutting it back to where the taper evens out? Is it because a bit of taper remains in the hair?

[perchjerker 0]

Piker20:

 

In the first place, you should use deer hair from the prime areas, which are NOT the belly. The white belly hair is often much coarser than the rest of the coat, and the coarse hair is a bit harder to properly pack. This may be the cause of your problem.

 

Check out Chris Helm's website for a detailed lesson on selecting deer hair, and the various parts of the body the 'best' comes from. Chris is widely recognized as one of the best in the US with deer hair!

 

(Incidentally, the 'follicle' is the area within the skin that the hair grows from; which you do not get when cutting the hair from the hide.)

 

I always cut the tips off of a hair bundle before I tie it to the hook. If you have a firm grasp on the hair, just below it's half-length area, and cut it as close to the hide as you can, you do not need to change your grasp on the hair to cut the tips off. This grasp will yield a bundle that is essentially held in the middle of it's length, which is what you want for tie in.

 

I find that if I pack with my fingers, I can get a tighter pack than when using a packing tool. Being a right-handed tier, I place the thumb of my left hand firmly on the hook with the nail against the shank, with the index finger supporting it on the back side of the hook. The index finger helps in preventing jabbing myself with the hook point. Both fingers serves as a stop. With the same two fingers of my right hand, and in the same basic position and the nail again resting on the top of the shank, I push the hair back as far as I can, with all the force I can, all the while twisting the hair clump from side-to-side as it moves along the hook shank.

 

Regardless of how tightly one packs it, there will only be a small area next to the hook that is really dense. The rest of the hair will simply project out from this area, unpacked. Trimming is typically done along the very distinct line that separates the densely packed portion from the unpacked area. The demarcation is quite prominent when you trim the hair off the bottom side to give you a flat belly. (This cut is accomplished using a fresh double edge razor blade, and cutting slowly from the front to the back about 1/8 inch out from the hook.)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers!

[Piker20 0]

 

Regardless of how tightly one packs it, there will only be a small area next to the hook that is really dense. The rest of the hair will simply project out from this area, unpacked. Trimming is typically done along the very distinct line that separates the densely packed portion from the unpacked area. The demarcation is quite prominent when you trim the hair off the bottom side to give you a flat belly. (This cut is accomplished using a fresh double edge razor blade, and cutting slowly from the front to the back about 1/8 inch out from the hook.)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers!

 

I have been using my fingers too and do try to really pack it back. I found a you tube link through the forum which I think has highlighted some areas I can work on. I use the razor blade but never used it curved to do the head as a 'one cut' which I think will make a big difference.

 

I find the bottom cuts fine and flat but its the sides I'm never happy with. Think I'll be a bit firmer on the pack, try using the razor properly and then go from there. Oh and look to alter my hair type.

[skidoosh 0]

 

Regardless of how tightly one packs it, there will only be a small area next to the hook that is really dense. The rest of the hair will simply project out from this area, unpacked. Trimming is typically done along the very distinct line that separates the densely packed portion from the unpacked area. The demarcation is quite prominent when you trim the hair off the bottom side to give you a flat belly. (This cut is accomplished using a fresh double edge razor blade, and cutting slowly from the front to the back about 1/8 inch out from the hook.)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers!

 

I have been using my fingers too and do try to really pack it back. I found a you tube link through the forum which I think has highlighted some areas I can work on. I use the razor blade but never used it curved to do the head as a 'one cut' which I think will make a big difference.

 

I find the bottom cuts fine and flat but its the sides I'm never happy with. Think I'll be a bit firmer on the pack, try using the razor properly and then go from there. Oh and look to alter my hair type.

 

Use the barrel of a bic pen or something or get a brassie to pack the hair. Much of the deer hair technique comes with experience. I would disagree not to use belly hair, it tends to have a larger diameter and I like to use it. Sometimes other body hair can have a fine diameter which I find more difficult to trim. Steam your hair before you trim it. Shape with a scissors but do the final shaping with a double edged razor- only about 1-2 flies per razor. Keep at it and you will do fine.

[Piker20 0]

yeah I know a lot of folk suggest deer belly. Also heard about the steaming so might try that. Think as well I have to accept it will display some flairing from the tie in point unless I hack it all back. Well I'll be back at the desk later and chop up some more fur.

[Piker20 0]

 

Check out Chris Helm's website for a detailed lesson on selecting deer hair, and the various parts of the body the 'best' comes from. Chris is widely recognized as one of the best in the US with deer hair!

 

 

 

Don't have a link to this do you? Could find a link to different animals hair but not seperating the parts of deer i'e belly / body etc.

[utyer 0]

Chris Helm is at White Tail Fly Tieing.com, just follow his name as the link.

[skidoosh 0]

Chris Helm is at White Tail Fly Tieing.com, just follow his name as the link.

 

I think the sight is shut down. I heard he has had some health issues. Purchase some of his DVD's on Amazon- well worth it.

check out

www.warwaterflytyer.com Ward has some great stuff

 

Also http://globalflyfisher.com/staff/helm/selecting/

 

I would also recommend looking at Charlie Craven's site and www.charliesflybox.com Look for the hair diver under his fly box

I found many youtube video's that are rather hit and miss.

[skidoosh 0]

My apologies, I was wrong- Chris is back in operation- good news,

 

http://www.whitetailflytieing.com/

 

He is very generous in answering emails and questions too! Highly recommended.

[Piker20 0]

well none of you deer tiers told me you only have 3 fingers left of the 5 God gave ya! Heck the razor bending things lethal. Just getting it in the pill lid nearly lost me an arm.

 

But the flies are slowly turning out better. Some pics hopefully soon.

[perchjerker 0]

For those who tie the occasional deer hair fly, white is OK; but most, if not all, commercial tiers, and those who tie a lot of such bugs all use selected body hair. The amount of spinning white hair on a deer hide is to limited to waste it for colored bodies. PREMO dyed strips are NOT belly hair, for example.There are only two times in the trimming process where the use of a double edged razor blade is necessary. The first is the cutting of the bottom flat, the second is final 'touch up' trimming AFTER the body has been shaped.

 

The following is a description of how the former commercial tier who teaches the deer hair spinning/stacking portion of our club's fly tying course teaches how to shape the body, and get good balance. He has been teaching this portion for over 20 years and has had students as young as 8 years old who caught on in a flask---NO ONE has ever flunked his session!

 

After the bottom has been trimmed flat, use the tips of your scissors as a pair of calipers and measure the hook gape. Without any adjustment to the scissor tips, and holding the bug by the bend in the hook and with it facing directly at you,measure off this distance to one side and make a cut no more than 1/8 inch deep at the outer edge at the bottom. Repeat this process for the other side at the bottom. Now, measure off this same distance above the eye and make a small sip the same depth as before. You have now established three 'mileposts' for your trimming.

 

Starting at one lower corner, continue removing the hair 1/8 inch deep up to the small snip above the hook eye. Now repeat this for the other side. You now have a 'face profile' to cut around. You next repeat this process from front to back on both sides, following the curve of the dense inner portion of the stacked/spun hair. You now have a template for the side trimming.

 

Once the profiles have been established, continue trimming from front to the back alternating between the face profile and that for the bottom. Be sure to cut only small amounts off with each snip, as it is next to impossible to replace any excess that has been cut off! Take your time and after every few snips, carefully examine your progress to see how the shape is coming along. Before you know it, you will have a nice balanced body on the hook.

 

As there will ALWAYS be a few 'wayward' hairs sticking out, and a few 'lumps' that were not intended, now is when the razor blade comes into play. You use it to 'smooth' out any irregularities, and to cut off those pesky stray hairs. Apply the razor blade very judiciously, as now is when you are apt to take off too much. It DOES NOT have to be perfectly smooth. If you try to get it 'glass smooth', you will wind up with a bare hook again, as you will wind up trimming all of the hair off!!!

 

Just remember, the barber does not use the razor to cut your hair; he uses scissors. He uses the razor very carefully for that final 'finishing touch' trim. The same holds true for trimming deer (etc.) hair.

 

It goes without saying that the more bugs you make, the easier it will become.

 

DON'T GIVE UP!!!

 

Cheers!

[Bruce Derington 0]

Perchjerker's last tips are right on!