Working with deer hair

[TheCream 0]

My one major tying goal for this fall/winter is to get a lot better with deer hair. I love painting foam and wooden popper bodies, but I'd like to be able to go old school on them, too. I did these two over the weekend. I am using the Orvis G thread which is supposed to be similar to Kevlar. I feel like I am getting the hair to flare well, but even using a Brassie packer I'm not getting the bugs quite as dense as I'd like. I also notice that on these two poppers, the face (last bundle tied in) is flaring out a lot and I can't get it to pack back and hold a dense shape. I think these two will fish, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

 

Fruit cocktail:

 

 

 

Yellow/olive/black mix:

 

 

[Robert M 0]

Add some glue to the face of the poppers to help them hold their flat shape. As far as making them denser I'll let some of the experts help with that. You may want to steam them before you trim them also that may help some.

 

They look pretty damn good and I would not blink twice about showin them off.

[firedad 0]

Steam helps everything tighten up and as for the face are you using scissors or a razor blade to trim?

[Piker20 0]

From the pics I would say the density is really good. I have the same prob with the heads but luckily normally tie patterns that call for the head to be trimmed backwards anyway.

[TheCream 0]

Steam helps everything tighten up and as for the face are you using scissors or a razor blade to trim?

 

Both, I am using a razor blade (brand new one) and a set of small curved scissors.

[ditz2 0]

I am no expert by far but your bugs look great to me. If you really need thicker you can always stack some more hair on top the the spun hair but you would lose the stripes. I wouldn't mess with them if it was me....The only thing you might consider doing is trimming the bottoms closer to the hook shank to open up the hook gap. I really like the bottom one. If you don't like it just pm me for my addy and send it my way.

[kentuckytroutbum 0]

To pack the hair denser, I was shown a trick using an empty Bic pen (without the point) sliding over the hook eye and pushing the hair tighter on the shank. FWIW.

 

I agree with Piker that your density of hair looks fine.

 

Bill

[perchjerker 0]

In an effort to help, I first have a question: Are you using your non-tying hand as a 'backstop'? By this, I mean, are you grasping the hook shank at the bend of the hook and using the thumb and index finger of that hand to press against? If not, doing this will make all of the difference in the world. You have to have something 'solid' to push against to properly pack the hair.

 

The use of a ball point pen tube, or any other packing device, can be helpful. However, the secret lies in the fact that it is THE THREAD on the hook in front of, the clump, and binding the hair down, NOT THE HAIR ITSELF, that has to be packed backwards; move the thread attaching and holding the clump in place and the hair will automatically move. I use my fingers, and can get a very tight pack. This enables me to actually feel the thread mass move, and signal when it is jamb up against the previous batch. Twisting the hair to and fro while packing also helps. You don't need to twist much.

 

Steaming is typically reserved for use on the completed fly. It is darned difficult to steam one as you tie! Also, there is no way you are going to get a perfectly flat face without applying head cement. The side views of your trimmed bugs are normal; and the fish won't object to them. The reinforcement of the face simply holds things together in a tighter bunch, and may add a little to the popping ability. Again, this is for the fisher; NOT the 'fished for'.

 

Should you declare these to be rejects, I have a very large waste can waiting to receive them!

 

Regards!

Frank

[zachxbass 0]

I wish my deer hair work was half that good... never heard of steaming them, I will have to google that. Unless someone wants to post an explanation

[TheCream 0]

In an effort to help, I first have a question: Are you using your non-tying hand as a 'backstop'? By this, I mean, are you grasping the hook shank at the bend of the hook and using the thumb and index finger of that hand to press against? If not, doing this will make all of the difference in the world. You have to have something 'solid' to push against to properly pack the hair.

 

The use of a ball point pen tube, or any other packing device, can be helpful. However, the secret lies in the fact that it is THE THREAD on the hook in front of, the clump, and binding the hair down, NOT THE HAIR ITSELF, that has to be packed backwards; move the thread attaching and holding the clump in place and the hair will automatically move. I use my fingers, and can get a very tight pack. This enables me to actually feel the thread mass move, and signal when it is jamb up against the previous batch. Twisting the hair to and fro while packing also helps. You don't need to twist much.

 

Steaming is typically reserved for use on the completed fly. It is darned difficult to steam one as you tie! Also, there is no way you are going to get a perfectly flat face without applying head cement. The side views of your trimmed bugs are normal; and the fish won't object to them. The reinforcement of the face simply holds things together in a tighter bunch, and may add a little to the popping ability. Again, this is for the fisher; NOT the 'fished for'.

 

Should you declare these to be rejects, I have a very large waste can waiting to receive them!

 

Regards!

Frank

 

I am using an index finger and thumb as a backstop when I pack. I am trying to do what you mentioned as far as keeping the thread ahead of the hair and that seems to be helping. As you said, you can feel the mass move slightly and jam up against the previous clump, but I don't feel that movement every time. It's maybe 50% of the time I feel the clump I am packing shift back and get tight.

 

I'll keep playing with it, I did another big popper last night, pics will follow later, I'm sure.

[Chefben4 0]

TheCream! Those are some nice looking flies my friend! When I started fly tying, I started with tying deer hair because I thought it was cool. Not realizing of course it was a bit on the difficult side to get it "perfect". I have found the quality of the hair is number 1 when trying to get it to stack good. I like the primo-hair strips personally. They seem to pack tight and make some nice bugs.

 

I also find that "stacking" the hair (not in a stacker, Im speaking of the tying method) packs a tighter fly then spinning the deer hair. I learned this technique from Tim Thomas at the midwest fly tying show and have been messing around with it since.

 

[Robert M 0]

I wish my deer hair work was half that good... never heard of steaming them, I will have to google that. Unless someone wants to post an explanation

 

When we talk about steaming the fly. You are placing the fly in a a stream of steam from a teapot or other device that allows the steam to escape at a steady rate. It is best to hold the fly with a pair of forceps for obvious reasons. This technique is also good for straightening out bent and crushed natural materials. I have never used it on synthetics so I don't know if it will help with them.

 

The staem causes the natural materials to fluff up for the most part.

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

your flies look great a suggestion I have is try stacking the main color then add stripes of your choice by spinning this will give you a tighter bug over all also remember the tightness of the hair depends on where you trim the bug the closer to the thread the tighter the hair

[TheCream 0]

your flies look great a suggestion I have is try stacking the main color then add stripes of your choice by spinning this will give you a tighter bug over all also remember the tightness of the hair depends on where you trim the bug the closer to the thread the tighter the hair

 

I realized this last night after tying a 1/0 bass popper, I dropped down to a #2 (Mustad 3366, short hook, not the same bass stingers I have been using) to do a green/white slider for smallies. The head seems much more dense using the same techniques, I think part of it has to be the head being shaved tighter to the shank. Here's last night's work:

 

 

 

The unfinished smallie slider:

 

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

they look great