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TheCream

Working with deer hair

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Looking Good! They will definitely catch fish! In addition to putting head cement on the face, I also put it on the bottom of the flyafter trimming....I think it helps w/durability.....IMHO, I would echo Chefbend's "quaklity of hair" as the number one factor in spinning and/or stacking hair.....I used to get most of my hair from Chris Helm, a true deer hair master.....I think his website was whittailflyting.com I heard he was ill last year and haven't ordered from him in a couple of years, but was hoping to place an order w/him this Winter......A lot of what you find in the flyshops is pure crap.....keep up the good work! I am sure in no time at all, your deer hair will rival your cork work!

 

Mike

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...I also find that "stacking" the hair (not in a stacker, Im speaking of the tying method) packs a tighter fly then spinning the deer hair. I learned this technique from Tim Thomas at the midwest fly tying show and have been messing around with it since.

 

Bingo! Chef Ben gets the prize.

 

First off, those are very nice look bugs Cream, no need to make them denser but if you must, you need to stack more hair on. This is especially true when tying larger bugs where the hair is getting trimmed and is actually still kind of long.

 

After you spin a bunch, separate it and place another bunch in there, top, bottom and sides and maybe even put two extra small bunches on top. You can pack spun bunches as tight as you want but until you get denser clumps on, the trimmed bug won't be dense. If you doubt your bugs are dense enough, just try trimming them down like a bullet, the closer you trim to the shank, the denser the trimmed edges will look. By stacking, you are getting the core of the fly raised off the shank as well as making the fly denser with hair. Not saying you don't have to pack it tight, you still have to do that but you have to put more hair on but not in one clump.

 

Kirk

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Cream...

 

As I think I said earlier, I have a very large waste basket you can throw those into anytime you want to get rid of them!

 

Frank

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I would say your tightness problem lies with the hair. if you don't get quality hair, it will be very tough to get them to pack any denser than what you have them. The dyed belly hair packs the tightest. I don't know what part of WV you live in but if you know where evergreen fly shop is they usually have pretty good hair. I've been screwed over a lot ordering off websites with hair, its something u have to inspect before you buy

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I thought this turned out as the best, tightest body I have made so far. I was a little unhappy with the collar, though. I thought I added plenty of tips to get a full collar but it was a little light.

 

DSC_0004-3.jpg

 

DSC_0007-1.jpg

 

This body didn't end up as tight as I'd like, and for some reason looks 5X better in person to me than it does in photo.

 

DSC_0013-4.jpg

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...I also find that "stacking" the hair (not in a stacker, Im speaking of the tying method) packs a tighter fly then spinning the deer hair. I learned this technique from Tim Thomas at the midwest fly tying show and have been messing around with it since.

 

Bingo! Chef Ben gets the prize.

 

Kirk

 

Does this mean I should be expecting a famous Kirk Dietrich fly tying-popper making kit in the mail? :blink: :lol:

 

The Cream.. You have me thinking about getting into some deer hair flies this weekend! Time to make a mess! :D

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I thought this turned out as the best, tightest body I have made so far. I was a little unhappy with the collar, though. I thought I added plenty of tips to get a full collar but it was a little light.

 

DSC_0004-3.jpg

 

DSC_0007-1.jpg

 

This body didn't end up as tight as I'd like, and for some reason looks 5X better in person to me than it does in photo.

 

DSC_0013-4.jpg

 

Looking good! Again a little something I learned from tyer Tim Thomas was to use goop or silicone on the front of the bug. It'll keep the face of it nice a clean and also helps with the "pop" of the fly. Again..as with most fly tying its a matter of preference. You definitely have the color transitioning down. Nice clean lines!

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Cream...

 

I recommend that you trim the bottom a little closer to the hook: the rule of thumb is; as close as you can get without cutting the thread.

 

Many of us who tie, and fish these flies, also coat the bottom with head cement. This closes the open ends of the hair which retards the capillary movement of water into them; i.e., retards water logging.

 

Like I noted earlier, I have a VERY LARGE waste basket!!

 

Cheers,

Frank

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Cream...

 

I recommend that you trim the bottom a little closer to the hook: the rule of thumb is; as close as you can get without cutting the thread.

 

Many of us who tie, and fish these flies, also coat the bottom with head cement. This closes the open ends of the hair which retards the capillary movement of water into them; i.e., retards water logging.

 

Like I noted earlier, I have a VERY LARGE waste basket!!

 

Cheers,

Frank

 

I have a very large fear of nicking the thread with the razor blade on the bottom! I basically trim enough so that I think the hook gape won't be an issue and leave it at that. ;) I may try to go tighter, though.

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If you proceed slowly, you should have no trouble at all. Just don't try to trim it all off with one single pass. Make several. Push the razor back a short distance, and remove the cut hair; repeat this process until it is all trimmed. With a little practice, it becomes second nature.

 

I hold the bug by the bend of the hook, point up, and observing from a head-on view, I begin. This enables me to establish a 'visionary' line relative to where the hook shank is, and how far above it I am with the razor blade. I inspect after every cut, and before making the next cut. This allows for any mid-course corrections that may be called for.

 

For practice, simply spin or stack some natural hair to a hook trim the bottom flat and as close as possible to the hook, and then trim it all off and start all over again. three or four such practice sessions should have you doing it like a pro. Then you can go back to the fancy stuff!

 

Cheers!

Frank

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They look great to me!

 

Ereybody has their preferences and ideas about things...For example, I use hackle feathers on the back/forked tail and trim my hair bodies all the way/further "down" than you do. The further down you trim the tighter the packing effect, vice versa...I like rubber legs in the body and couple of stout mono weedguards and a good hook opening/"bite", too...I put lil white hair last to help these old eyes see it, also...Castability, catchability, and the little things that get old bucketmouth accelarated are important to me...Later DL

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denduke has mentioned a couple of excellent points. With respect to 'snag guards', a.k.a. 'weed guards', it depends upon the type of vegetation, etc, if any, in the waters that I plan to fish as to whether I use them or not; therefore, I tie some with, and some without. If there are waterlilies, lotus, floating moss, and deadfalls, etc., in the water, they are a definite advantage. Absent these hazards, I don't use 'bugs' with snag guards, as they offer no real advantages in such waters that I am aware of. The white 'face' is a very definite advantage; except when fishing at night. We just need some "glow-in-the-dark" dyed hair for such bugs!

 

My philosophy is that if I am going to be fishing 'open' water, where the only thing my bug is apt to get hung up on is 'ole bucket mouth's lips', I don't need a 'snag guard', as I do NOT want to guard against snagging those lips! On the other hand, if the water is 'weed' infested, I do NOT want to be 'harvesting weeds'. A five gallon bucket full of moss with each cast is no fun!!

 

I think what denduke is referring to when he mentions trimming "further down" is that he trims his bugs much closer to the hook. Doing so definitely reveals the most densely packed regions of the hair.

 

Cheers!

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I was thinking more in terms of the hair itself. However, the chenille is a step in the right direction. Will have to give it a try.

 

Thanks.

 

Cheers!

Frank

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