Need help with casting Redington CPX 8wt

[Sjbellrichard 0]

Just purchased a Redington CPX 8wt and am having trouble casting it. Been fly fishing seriously for about 1 year. The line is WF8 Sage ultimate performance. This is my first fast action fly rod and am very disappointed with it. Is it my inexperience or do I need a different fly line. Thanks

[perchjerker 0]

I can't provide a definitive answer to your question. However, Fast Action rods require a different casting stroke and 'speed', just like a bamboo rod typically requires it's own speed and stroke.

 

Start your casting with just a few feet of line out and watch the tip and the line, and change the casting speed until you can get a nice even flow of the line forwards and backwards. Gradually pay out line until you are comfortable with your casting speed and stroke. This is how I adapted to a very fast rod years ago, after years of fishing medium and slow action rods.

 

Good luck!

[Sjbellrichard 0]

Perchjerker,

 

Thanks. I tried that advice, but will try again. I was hoping someone with this rod might provide a line recommendation. What line do you use with your fast action rod? I will use the rod primarily for big bass fly's, but bought the rod to use on my annual flats fishing trip.

 

Again, thanks

[notenuftoys 0]

Don't give up. On both my 8wts (Redington Super Sport and Sage Z-Axis) I've had to go through several lines to find one that matched it properly. The Sage line flat did not work on my Sage rod, which I thought was strange. On my Redington, a magnum 8wt line worked the best.

 

So plan on trying a couple different tapers, and maybe even a magnum or 9wt line. You'll find the one that fits.

[mikechell 0]

What did you start on? You state you've been seriously fly fishing for a year ... I've been fly fishing fro over 30 years. I still need to relearn everything when I try a different weight class rod. I generally fish a 5 or lower, as I catch small fish and like to have fun with them. If this is what you started with, then you now have a rod that is a "cannon" to the "gun" you used to have.

Couple of analogies:

In the Marines, we had snipers and we had artillerymen. Rarely were the two found in the same man.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight.

 

You'll have to start as if you've never fly fished before. Relearn the lift/stroke/pause/cast of the heavier line. Another cliche: It's a whole new ball game!

[ditz 0]

I would try a 9wt line in either a bass taper, saltwater taper, or a red fish taper. These lines have a short heavy front taper to help cast a larger fly with fewer false casts. It will slow the rod action and help you to feel the 'load'. I understand that some rods are so fast that they can be overlined 2 or 3 line wts. I have a very fast Colton rod that I overlined 1 line wt and it casts great. I tried 2 lines over but it did not feel right to me 2 line wts over. Most good fly shops will let you try different lines to fit a 'winner'. good luck

[perchjerker 0]

Perchjerker,

 

Thanks. I tried that advice, but will try again. I was hoping someone with this rod might provide a line recommendation. What line do you use with your fast action rod? I will use the rod primarily for big bass fly's, but bought the rod to use on my annual flats fishing trip.

 

Again, thanks

 

 

Not being absolutely certain what you mean by "what line do you use...", I am first going to assume you mean line weight. I use the line weight the rod was designed for, as a starter. If it does not cast to my expectations, I go one line weight higher and give it a try; or, I might drop one line weight just for confirmation of my observations. In your case, this translates to first trying a 9wt line, and possibly even a 7wt.

 

In your case, I would start with an 8wt line; REGARDLESS of rod "Action". The reason for this is that rod "Action" designates that portion of the rod that does the "work", which has no bearing on the weight line that the rod was designed for.

 

In a "Slow" rod, the "action" extends all the way from the tip to the portion inside the handle, in which case the entire rod needs to be 'flexed' to be "loaded". You can actually feel the shaft flex inside the cork handle! For a "Medium" action rod, it will flex to a point just past the half-way point along the shaft. In a "Fast" action rod, it is the upper portion of the tip section that does the work.

 

The "Action" of the rod is one design parameter, which includes wall thickness and taper of the blank from butt to tip, and the variations that can be built in along the length of the blank. The line weight rating is an entirely different design parameter; but does include taper and overall blank diameter, and it can be used to design a blank to handle any and all 'standard' line weights currently being manufactured. Hence,our terminology of a "balanced outfit"; line to rod, and reel and line to balance the rod.

 

"not enough toys (NET)" and Mike both touch on the "fly-in-the-ointment". Under AFTMA 'guidelines', there is a 'standard' weight range, measured in GRAINS, for each designated line weight rating. Unfortunately, many line makers are apparently not holding strictly to the once agreed upon weight range, and are now making them heavier than marked. Some have openly admitted to doing so. This is why NET and Mike have to do what they do with new gear.

 

If you are asking about line BRANDS, I cannot be of much help, as, with the exception of a silk line and a line from Cabela's, all of mine are either SA or Courtland, and consist of DT, WF, and, yes, even a couple of L's; both floating and sinking.

 

Now, I have a question of you! How old is the line you are using, and when was it last cleaned and dressed? A "dirty" line can mean all the difference in the world in it's castability. Also, you might be surprised at how fast 'dirt' will accumulate on the outer surface of a line; especially if being 'lawncast'.

 

Back to my earlier suggestion about starting with just a few feet of line out, I suggest no more than 6-8 feet until you get the "feel" for making a nice level 'cast', and THEN begin to slowly pay out line until you reach your desired casting distance.

 

I hope this is of some help.

 

Frank

 

PS: Ditz posted while I was typing my response, and he makes a good point. However, I have not heard as much about rods being "under rated", which is what he experienced with the rod at issue, as I have lines.

 

The matter of "overlining", as he mentions, and "underlining" a rod is a separate discussion; and, at least to me, an interesting one.

[Bucket 0]

Double Haul it.

[Steeldrifter 0]

Some rods are actually underrated/improperly rated. The true way to find the line rating of a rod is to preform what is called the "common cents system" on the rod. Yes I said "cents" because the use of pennies are actually involved http://www.common-cents.info/

 

What you will find is that many rods are underrated from the factory. Some rods may be rated a 8 wt line class yet test out to a solid 9wt or even a 10wt. The reason they do that is because over the past 10-15 years companies like Sage and others have made fisherman believe that they need to have a fast action rod or else they are using an outdated rod. So they mark the rod as an 8wt yet it actually has a ERN of somewhere in the 9's so it feels like a very fast rod when it has an 8wt line on it.

 

The Reddington CPX is some of those rods. It's an underated rod and the 8wt is actually more of a 9wt in my opinion. You can do a couple things. First would be to try a different line as wan mentioned. I'd go with a 9wt or a bass bug taper in a 9wt and that should help load it better. Or you can take your 8wt line you have and start trimming the line down a bit. Start with taking off about 6-8ft off the front of the line. That will cause the amount of line you have out from the tip to have a heavier grain per feet of line from the tip and make it load the rod easier. If that feels better than try a little more trimming such as 10-12' of line trimmed from the front of it.

 

And as mentioned you need to adjust your casting stroke to a quicker/shorter movement to compensate for the very fast action of the rod.

 

Try these things and let us know how it goes.

 

Steve

[vicrider 0]

There is so much great advice in the above posts I am really glad I found this forum. I fish everything from a 6' midge bamboo to a 10' Lamiglass 10wt. I find the graphite has to be treated completely different than the bamboo and depending on how far you plan on doing your casting on a regular basis, for the use you speak of I'd go with those suggesting trying a 9wt. Bassbug taper. Loads the rod much quicker and allows you to shoot more line on delivery. I am fortunately to have a few reels loaded with DT and WF from 3wt. to 11wt. so I never accept a rods line weight as gold until I fish it up and down a few weights. Amazing how a rod I thought I'd never learn to cast fell into fishing luxury with just a change of line type or weight. Maybe you can borrow a few different line setups from local guys to try. Can make all the difference.

 

One other thing with my Scierra and Three Forks graphites, I tend to accelerate both the line pickup and delivery much more than my bamboo rods or my fiberglass rods. And, tho it's not what you'd want to hear, I find for myself that slower rods, like my 8wt Para 17 bamboo or 7&8wt Shakespeare and Fenwick glass rods actually are nicer to fish big bugs and streamers on than my fast graphite rods. Keep experimenting, the answer is out there.

[perchjerker 0]

And, tho it's not what you'd want to hear, I find for myself that slower rods, like my 8wt Para 17 bamboo or 7&8wt Shakespeare and Fenwick glass rods actually are nicer to fish big bugs and streamers on than my fast graphite rods. Keep experimenting, the answer is out there.

 

AMEN!!! I find my bamboo rods to be even a tad bit better; simply because of their "Slow" action relative to glass and graphite; especially graphite.

 

One does not come by all of this "overnight". I bought my first fly rod in 1952, and am still learning!!

 

Cheers!

Frank

[SCOwens 0]

Some rods are actually underrated/improperly rated. The true way to find the line rating of a rod is to preform what is called the "common cents system" on the rod. Yes I said "cents" because the use of pennies are actually involved http://www.common-cents.info/

 

What you will find is that many rods are underrated from the factory. Some rods may be rated a 8 wt line class yet test out to a solid 9wt or even a 10wt. The reason they do that is because over the past 10-15 years companies like Sage and others have made fisherman believe that they need to have a fast action rod or else they are using an outdated rod. So they mark the rod as an 8wt yet it actually has a ERN of somewhere in the 9's so it feels like a very fast rod when it has an 8wt line on it.

 

The Reddington CPX is some of those rods. It's an underated rod and the 8wt is actually more of a 9wt in my opinion. You can do a couple things. First would be to try a different line as wan mentioned. I'd go with a 9wt or a bass bug taper in a 9wt and that should help load it better. Or you can take your 8wt line you have and start trimming the line down a bit. Start with taking off about 6-8ft off the front of the line. That will cause the amount of line you have out from the tip to have a heavier grain per feet of line from the tip and make it load the rod easier. If that feels better than try a little more trimming such as 10-12' of line trimmed from the front of it.

 

And as mentioned you need to adjust your casting stroke to a quicker/shorter movement to compensate for the very fast action of the rod.

 

Try these things and let us know how it goes.

 

 

 

Steve

 

Thanks for this info. Just got a new rod from a friend its an MHX that he built I was struggling the other day with it hopefully I can turn it around

[Steeldrifter 0]

Mudhole's MHX is a really nice blank, but yes they are a very fast action so you may need to play around with lines to find the one that casts best on you're MHX as well.

 

Steve

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

Keep trying, the faster action stuff wont really load the same until you have a good deal of line outside the tip but then it becomes a missile!

 

Eventually you will prefer a fast action in salt and wind as you can generate an enormous amount of line speed and just punch through. Timing and stops need to be sharper, otherwise you will miss the stroke.

 

My fave 8wt is a sage z-axis 9' 6" - completely overpowered 8wt which i disliked at first but then became my fave.

 

Funny stuff, i also in the last 2 years have been using a sage 'one' 9' 8wt - and i have broken it now 3 times just casting, *sigh*, i am really bummed out and confused as to why this keep going on, just standard wf8 lines. 2012 was horrible, i broke rods and lost 1.

 

Pretty clever guys on here who have given great advice so far.

[Sjbellrichard 0]

First off, thanks all for your time responding.

 

I performed the Common Cents System (CCS) suggested by Steeldrifter (thanks Steve) and would like your thoughts on my conclusions and recommendations.

 

Results for my Redington CPX 9' 8wt:

 

Effective Rod Number (EFN) = 9.83 (note: it took 80 pennies to bend this rod 1/3 it's length)

Action Angle (AA) = 75 degrees (CCS says if over 66 degrees its fast)

Common Cents Frequency (CCF) = 1200/14 = 85.7 (CCS says for graphite typically 66-90)

Defined Bending Index (DBI) = ERN:AA = 9.83:75

 

Conclusion ???

1. Line Weight required for Balanced Outfit – Per CCS, ERN =ELN (Line Number). With an ERN of 9.8, I would need at least a 9wt line (probably closer to a 10 wt) to balance this outfit.

 

2. Action – Per CCS, anything over 66 degrees is fast. Therefore, at 75 degrees, this rod is very fast.

 

3. Frequency – Per CCS, the rod fall within the higher end of normal frequency expected for graphite.

 

4. Rod Purpose - The ultimate purpose of this rod is to flats fish saltwater Reds, Snook and Small Tarpon, but will also be using it to cast large flys to bass and musky in freshwater. I will be fishing from boats, kayaks, wading, shore, float tubes(freshwater only).

 

Recommendation??

Purchase a 9wt bug taper freshwater line and try it out. I don’t want a 10wt outfit, so if this does not feel good, return rod and line. Your thoughts appreciated.