breambuster 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2012 I am going to be tying some small flies, #18, for a fly swap and need to know about tying thread for patterns that small. I'm looking at some Veevus 12/0. Their thread goes down to a 16/0 and I assume that is for flies that are #20 and smaller. What do you all think of my using Veevus 12/0 for a #18? Thanks Breambuster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
H Dot Verseman 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2012 it would be just fine. you could also use utc 70, georgia bennechi sp*, or even 17/o trico thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phg 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 Are you in Europe? The Benicchi 12/0 is perfect for size 18 flies. Gordon Griffith's 14/0 will also work well. In the US, these are a bit hard to find, but Uni-Thread 8/0 (70 denier) works well enough but you do have to be careful, and make each wrap count, to avoid excessive buildup. I'm not familiar with Veevus thread, but if their sizing is similar to Benicchi's, then the 12/0 should be fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BassMouth87 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 I won a bunch of veevus threads with my salmon fly tying material package and I must say it is very easy to work with. I find that it has a lot more strength then its counter parts as far as the size designation goes, and it is nice and smooth, easy to handle and in the smaller sizes does not build up to quick. I would highly suggest ordering a few different sizes/colors and giving it a try. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chase Creek 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 Veevus seems to be catching on in popularity here. Haven't used it, but do most of my tying with Griffith's 14/0 Sheer. Lots of colors to choose from, and pretty strong for it's size, in my opinion. Most suppliers seem to carry it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carlp5351 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 I tie down to size 22 with Montana Fly Co 8/0 thread. There thread is great. carlp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planettrout 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 I have used them all and now use these two for small patterns, including # 18's: From Umpqua... From Hareline... PT/TB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackaig 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 That's your thread sorted! Now other things to consider. Though it may be small for you size 18 isn't that small. You can tie most trout patterns down to that size without to much trouble. One thing I constantly see in many videos is people running the thread up and down the hook shank. You should aim to tie everything in one pass each way. Start the thread a little way behind the eye. For most flies this should be about 1x the width of the eye behind the hook eye. Run the thread down in neat even touching turns to the tail. This will give a good base to tie on. No need for glue here. To illustrate what I mean by not running up and down the hook shank unnecessarily lets look at tying in a tail and rib. You've got a base of thread down, measure the tail, and punch and loop it to the top of the hook shank. Thats one turn of thread. Take a second turn over the tail, and that will hold it. The next turn is to tie in the ribbing material. But look, it has also gone around the tail. Adding to the security of the tail. There is no need to run the thread down the hook shank to secure the tail then back to the tail for the rib, then back and forth for esubsequentuent material. If you do this by the time you have the tail and rib in place you have five layers of thread on the hook shank. Yet none of the materials are any more secure than if you had only two. So why do it? I know why you shouldn't on small hooks. You will make the fly fatter than you need to. To test if you have a good base of tying thread down turn your hand palm up. Stick out your index finger and drag your finger nail along the top of the hook shank. You want the finger at 45 degrees to the hook shank. This will tell you how even the thread base is. It is very useful when tying tinsel bodies. Any uneven wraps will show through a tinsel body. Speaking of tinsel. Tie it in with as many wraps as you feel are needed, count how many you use. Wind the tinsel down the body and back then, when you get back to the tie in point, take the wraps you used to tie it in off. Then secure the whole body with two turns. The turns you add when putting the next materials on will add to the security of the tinsel. These techniques are what we mean when we say "make every wrap of thread count". It is possible to tie a fly with only two or three turns of thread for tying in each material. If you want a pattern of your own design for small hooks then always try to keep the hook gape clear. Work on getting more of the materials on the top of the hook shank. Here's a Midge pattern I've been tying for about 10 years. Very little of the dressing goes into the hook gape. This is on a size 22. Hope that helps. Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 not all size 18 hooks are exactly the same length. there would be some limitations using 6/0 thread but with good thread management it can be done. use the size you are most comfortable with. the veevus brand recently introduced on the market should allow anyone to tie with a stronger but smaller diameter thread. it is slowly becoming my go to thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrequentTyer 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 That's your thread sorted! Now other things to consider. That is some fantastic advice Crackaig! Another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes you actually need to build bulk. For example, I have been tying a lot of upright divided wings lately and posting/positioning calf tail or wood duck wings with anything smaller than 8/0 involves too many thread wraps for my sanity. I now use Griffiths 14/0 for #20 and smaller, but for any other dry fly I use UNI 8/0. Personally I think that using Veevus and similar threads would just encourage me to be careless. Mike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KHoss 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2012 That veevus stuff is junk Won't lay flat and breaks way too easy Sheet 14/0 is THE BEST Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCOwens 0 Report post Posted December 31, 2012 I have some 14/0 thread and after tying saltwater flies I was miserable broke it 15 or so times, sure this will make you feel better, I stepped back and used the 8/0 MFC stuff down to a 16 last night and it worked just fine, and I wasn't as mad haha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m_grieb 0 Report post Posted January 2, 2013 i would tie them using unithread 8/0. strong and perfect for that size range Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feathers5 0 Report post Posted January 2, 2013 In my opinion if you use a limited number of wraps 8/0 will tie down to size 26. That's what I use. It doesn't hurt to go smaller, of course, but if you're trying to limit all that thread, I don't think yiu really need real small thread like sizes 14 or 17, etc. I do have some size 10 and it is fine, too. Bruce Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fshrmanms 0 Report post Posted January 2, 2013 BB my #18 hooks and veevus 12/0 came in the mail today sure hope none of the hooks fall on the floor, never find em! that is some fine thread and I am such a brute with thread any way there are 25 hooks so I can have 13 rejects. LOL! I'll let you know what happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites