Hackles?

[snooker21 0]

Can someone explain the difference between hen and rooster cape, neck, and saddle hackle? I'm trying to tie some decievers but i don't know what to buy?Where to buy it from? HELP?

[DUBBN 0]

Since it's a streamer, I would buy some strung rooster hackle. Just a few dollars for quite alot of feathers. Try googling it, or browse some online fly shops.

 

Heres a link to some on Ebay.

 

http://stores.ebay.com/Mountainview-Flies-and-Supplies/Strung-Rooster-Saddle-Hackle-/_i.html?_fsub=2026812014

[snooker21 0]

Saddle, neck, or cape?

[DUBBN 0]

Neck and cape are the same thing. Saddle comes off the back of the chicken. Again, I would use some cheap "STRUNG" hackle. However, I have never tied a Deceiver. If I wanted to, I would go to YouTube and see first hand what most tiers recommend in their videos . A simple search of "Deciever trout fly" will get you into a bunch of videos. If you want the original recipe add "Lefty" to the search. Those guys will tie the fly right before your very eyes. I bet they will tell you the recipe aswell. ;-)

[blackdog1101 0]

Rooster neck/cape

 

Rooster saddle

 

Hen neck/cape (simialr in shape to a rooser cape, but with rounder, webbier feathers.)

 

Hen saddle

[blackdog1101 0]

This is a man/rooster hybrid. Obviously the gentics worked out poorly. Dr. Whiting has a lot to answer for in breeding this hideous Frankenbird.

 

[tidewaterfly 0]

Can someone explain the difference between hen and rooster cape, neck, and saddle hackle? I'm trying to tie some decievers but i don't know what to buy?Where to buy it from? HELP?

Snooker, DUBBN, is correct, cape & neck hackle are the same. Both roosters & hen have them & saddle hackle. Neck hackle is from the head & neck area, and down into the back of the bird. The next area down into the back is what is called the saddle, just as if you were putting a saddle on the back of a horse. Saddle hackle is the long, thin feathers, and as you get into the tail, there is schlappen hackle & then the tail feathers.

 

Depending on the birds, as some are genetically raised, hen's can have feathers suitable for tying Deceivers, but the number of usable feathers is often limited. There is also a difference in hackle that is raised for tying dry flies & those that are more desirable for tying such flies as Deceivers. Such hackle is often designated as Bass or Saltwater hackle.

 

Most are tied with either the hackle from the neck of a rooster or the saddle. What you want will be fairly wide, and somewhat webby. As DUBBN has mentioned, strung hackle, either neck or saddle hackle can be used. Strung neck hackle will generally give a better & wider profile, while saddle hackle gives a thinner appearance & more movement.

 

Here's a good reference that should give you a better idea of what's been said here.

 

http://www.mwflytying.com/materials/feathers.html

 

Here's another good reference that may help:

http://www.hookhack.com/html/choosinghackle.html

 

Here's a few flies that have been tied with saddle hackle in the tail. As you can see they vary in width.

 

Here are flies tied with neck hackle. Again, there is some variance.

[SCOwens 0]

oHHHH ... Frankenbird, bad bad genetic combination .. he could also pick up a "cheap" cape off of ebay, I purchased one for the same price as some strung hackle from the store, and got a few more feathers

[tidewaterfly 0]

he could also pick up a "cheap" cape off of ebay,

Provided he knows what it is he's buying. A "cheap" India cape may not be well suited for his application as the feathers will be much smaller than a domestic Bass or saltwater type. The Indian capes are not undesirable for tying, as they work well for small flies, but not so well if he desires to tie big flies.

 

Chinese capes are often sold as Bass or Saltwater and some are good for tying bigger size flies. The problem with Chinese capes is that the stems are often soft, and do not hold up well. Domestically raised birds are often superior, even the cheapest priced.

[SkinnyPole 0]

Whiting "American Rooster Saddle" looks good works well for about $45.00.

Whiting "Streamer/Deceiver Pack" are sweet for about $10.00.

I use "Chinese (rooster) Strung Saddle Hackle" because I am cheap about $5.00 per 1/4 oz.

 

Skinny

[snooker21 0]

thanks all this helps so much.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Whiting "American Rooster Saddle" looks good works well for about $45.00.

Whiting "Streamer/Deceiver Pack" are sweet for about $10.00.

I use "Chinese (rooster) Strung Saddle Hackle" because I am cheap about $5.00 per 1/4 oz.

 

Whiting hackle is excellent, but IMO is not always the best choice for tying some types of big flies. I picked up a black Whiting saddle a couple of weeks ago from an Ebay seller for $30, which is a great price. I'll use some of the hackle for tying eel patterns & for palmering Woolly Buggers, but would not use it on Deceivers.

 

I'm not impressed with the Whiting Deceiver packs, because IMO there are not enough feathers of similar size for the tying I do. If they're used for tying a few flies of different sizes, then they're fine. The grizzly colors are fine too for adding to other hackle where you want that barred effect. For the same price, I can get more Strung hackle & subsequently tie more flies. But, that's just me, they may be more suitable for how others like to tie.

 

If you look around, strung neck & saddle hackle can be purchased for $3.50 to $4 per 1/4 oz pack. It's domestic hackle, and is more than likely of the barn yard variety, but that works well for Deceivers & other big flies. I've bought it in bulk several times by the half pound.

 

I raised my own chickens for several years when I tied commercially, just to have a good supply of the wide, webby neck hackle. Back then I primarily tied saltwater & warmwater flies, and tied a lot of Keys style Tarpon flies.

 

I had both Barred Rocks (grizzly) and White Rocks, which are both large birds. I had hens too, as hen hackle has it's uses, and they lay a lot of eggs.

 

IMO, the best hackle for tying warmwater & saltwater flies is often of the barn yard variety, unless you're tying Flat Wings or Flats types flies where you need thin hackles.

 

I used to buy a lot of Indian capes too, especially those with red variant or Cree coloration. They're ideal for tying many patterns where you want to add side cheeks, and particularly for shrimp or crab patterns.

[snooker21 0]

Whiting "American Rooster Saddle" looks good works well for about $45.00.

Whiting "Streamer/Deceiver Pack" are sweet for about $10.00.

I use "Chinese (rooster) Strung Saddle Hackle" because I am cheap about $5.00 per 1/4 oz.

 

Whiting hackle is excellent, but IMO is not always the best choice for tying some types of big flies. I picked up a black Whiting saddle a couple of weeks ago from an Ebay seller for $30, which is a great price. I'll use some of the hackle for tying eel patterns & for palmering Woolly Buggers, but would not use it on Deceivers.

 

I'm not impressed with the Whiting Deceiver packs, because IMO there are not enough feathers of similar size for the tying I do. If they're used for tying a few flies of different sizes, then they're fine. The grizzly colors are fine too for adding to other hackle where you want that barred effect. For the same price, I can get more Strung hackle & subsequently tie more flies. But, that's just me, they may be more suitable for how others like to tie.

 

If you look around, strung neck & saddle hackle can be purchased for $3.50 to $4 per 1/4 oz pack. It's domestic hackle, and is more than likely of the barn yard variety, but that works well for Deceivers & other big flies. I've bought it in bulk several times by the half pound.

 

I raised my own chickens for several years when I tied commercially, just to have a good supply of the wide, webby neck hackle. Back then I primarily tied saltwater & warmwater flies, and tied a lot of Keys style Tarpon flies.

 

I had both Barred Rocks (grizzly) and White Rocks, which are both large birds. I had hens too, as hen hackle has it's uses, and they lay a lot of eggs.

 

IMO, the best hackle for tying warmwater & saltwater flies is often of the barn yard variety, unless you're tying Flat Wings or Flats types flies where you need thin hackles.

 

I used to buy a lot of Indian capes too, especially those with red variant or Cree coloration. They're ideal for tying many patterns where you want to add side cheeks, and particularly for shrimp or crab patterns.

Where should i buy the strung hackle? Saddle or neck? What would be best for medium sized streamers, saddle or neck?

[Roofish 0]

A very helpful post, Thanx

[Jaydub 0]

I wouldn't buy expensive hackle for Deceivers. As others have said I'd use strung saddle hackle. Something like this

: http://www.jsflyfishing.com/cgi-bin/item/NM-790085-0000/search/Hareline-5-7