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kimjensen

Lead in brass beads?

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Looks like there is more brass than I thought and its not all created equal. From that table flytire posted, it appears only one kind of brass contains lead - Leaded Brass.

That's just my take, I'm no metallergist though.

 

Kirk

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Didn't make much sense smile.png

Explanation?

well its a chart that gives you the composition of different types of brass. i didnt think any explanation was needed

 

tried to help but......

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Actually there are 3 alloys listed that contain lead, but any of them can. Even the "Lead-Free" alloy can legally contain lead. It's totally up to each manufacture as to how closely they follow the recipe for the allow they are producing.

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Didn't make much sense smile.png

Explanation?

 

Don't feel bad. I don't think that most metalurgist understand it either. It seems to be a black art rather than science.

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My understanding is that a small amount of lead makes the brass easier to shape, and the lower melting point of lead places it on the surface of the individual grains of brass. I wouldn't worry about it though.

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It's just such a toxic product (lead), so i get a little paranoid. Some don't care, some say avoid it, some say it's nothing to worry about. And some say you go completely crazy before you die from lead poisoning. So who's the guy with the right mind?smile.png I'm just thinking loud here.

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It's just such a toxic product (lead), so i get a little paranoid.

 

If it was "such a toxic product" then every fishable piece of water in the world would be dead dead dead.

 

Not saying lead is totally impact-free, but there is a WHOLE LOT of science showing the hysteria surrounding lead fishing tackle is just total crap, emotional BS foisted upon us by people with an anti-sportsmen agenda. There has been NO, NONE, ZERO evidence ever shown that lead in fly fishing has negatively impacted anything in any ecosystem.

 

If you don't want to fish with lead or anything which might contain a microgram or two of lead alloyed with copper and zinc (oh by the way zinc is also very "TOXIC"... do a little reading on the history of Palmerton, Pennsylvania) then that is fine, for whatever reasons you choose.

 

To get paranoid over the amount of lead which MIGHT be present in fly tying beads is irrational.

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For what it is worth, I actually run the childhood lead poisoning prevention program for the state of Maine. Yes, many formulations of brass contain lead. And yes, lead is pretty nasty stuff - it's been studied for years and it appears to have no threshold - meaning any amount of exposure can potentially cause toxicity - particularly in children with their developing brain, altho the research on adults is suggesting that for certain effects there is no threshold as well.

 

The critical word, tho, is exposure. So, from my perspective as a toxicologist, lead in a brass bead that stays in a brass bead is fine (and I should say I'm a human toxicologist, so while there are some wildlife concerns about lost flies, I suppose, I'm focusing on humans). So, Jaydub is right, don't eat it. Typical problems with brass and lead exposure (at least that I"m familiar with) are from new brass plumbing fixtures and acid or very soft water - where the lead will leach from the brass and end up in the water. In Maine, at least, that is a fairly rare occurence, altho I believe the USEPA recently lowered the amount of lead allowable in brass plumbing fixtures). For children, by far the majority of exposure comes from dust from lead paint and from soil. The soil and dust gets on the floor, children (1 and 2 year olds) play on the floor and then they put their hands and toys in their mouth. This also impacts them when their brain is at its most sensitive in terms of development.

 

From our perspective, as sportsmen and women, the riskiest activities that we see are things like casting one's own lead weights or reloading. There, again, by far, you are more likely to poison your own child rather than yourself. It takes remarkably little lead dust to contaminate clothes to child to mouth. We sometimes see adults poisoned from hobbies. I should say, however, children like shiny things and they explore with their mouths. We sometimes see toddlers eat lead splitshot - so that is a risk as well.

 

So I wouldn't worry about brass beads from an adult human health perspective, altho I would not let your toddler play with them. I'm much more worried about your lead paint in your house (if you're in the US, many European countries sensibly banned lead paint early in the last century, we didn't ban until 1978). If you are interested in more gory details, you can check out our website: www.maine.gov/healthyhomes

 

eric

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It's just such a toxic product (lead), so i get a little paranoid. Some don't care, some say avoid it, some say it's nothing to worry about. And some say you go completely crazy before you die from lead poisoning. So who's the guy with the right mind?smile.png I'm just thinking loud here.

Yes, lead can do bad things to you ... especially the high velocity type exiting the barrel of a gun. I am particular to the effect it will have, should someone unknown to me or the Wife enter the house uninvited.

There is enough naturally occurring lead in the environment to make any "measurements" of lead due to fishing gear invalid. As has been stated, it is only in the use of lead in household paints, Chinese toys, etc. that exposure is most likely.

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For what it is worth, I actually run the childhood lead poisoning prevention program for the state of Maine. Yes, many formulations of brass contain lead. And yes, lead is pretty nasty stuff - it's been studied for years and it appears to have no threshold - meaning any amount of exposure can potentially cause toxicity - particularly in children with their developing brain, altho the research on adults is suggesting that for certain effects there is no threshold as well.

 

The critical word, tho, is exposure. So, from my perspective as a toxicologist, lead in a brass bead that stays in a brass bead is fine (and I should say I'm a human toxicologist, so while there are some wildlife concerns about lost flies, I suppose, I'm focusing on humans). So, Jaydub is right, don't eat it. Typical problems with brass and lead exposure (at least that I"m familiar with) are from new brass plumbing fixtures and acid or very soft water - where the lead will leach from the brass and end up in the water. In Maine, at least, that is a fairly rare occurence, altho I believe the USEPA recently lowered the amount of lead allowable in brass plumbing fixtures). For children, by far the majority of exposure comes from dust from lead paint and from soil. The soil and dust gets on the floor, children (1 and 2 year olds) play on the floor and then they put their hands and toys in their mouth. This also impacts them when their brain is at its most sensitive in terms of development.

 

From our perspective, as sportsmen and women, the riskiest activities that we see are things like casting one's own lead weights or reloading. There, again, by far, you are more likely to poison your own child rather than yourself. It takes remarkably little lead dust to contaminate clothes to child to mouth. We sometimes see adults poisoned from hobbies. I should say, however, children like shiny things and they explore with their mouths. We sometimes see toddlers eat lead splitshot - so that is a risk as well.

 

So I wouldn't worry about brass beads from an adult human health perspective, altho I would not let your toddler play with them. I'm much more worried about your lead paint in your house (if you're in the US, many European countries sensibly banned lead paint early in the last century, we didn't ban until 1978). If you are interested in more gory details, you can check out our website: www.maine.gov/healthyhomes

 

eric

 

Great post. Thanks for taking the time to write it. Summary for me is: don't worry about some brass beads when fishing but keep the kids away from the tying table. Thanks again.

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For what it is worth, I actually run the childhood lead poisoning prevention program for the state of Maine. Yes, many formulations of brass contain lead. And yes, lead is pretty nasty stuff - it's been studied for years and it appears to have no threshold - meaning any amount of exposure can potentially cause toxicity - particularly in children with their developing brain, altho the research on adults is suggesting that for certain effects there is no threshold as well.

 

The critical word, tho, is exposure. So, from my perspective as a toxicologist, lead in a brass bead that stays in a brass bead is fine (and I should say I'm a human toxicologist, so while there are some wildlife concerns about lost flies, I suppose, I'm focusing on humans). So, Jaydub is right, don't eat it. Typical problems with brass and lead exposure (at least that I"m familiar with) are from new brass plumbing fixtures and acid or very soft water - where the lead will leach from the brass and end up in the water. In Maine, at least, that is a fairly rare occurence, altho I believe the USEPA recently lowered the amount of lead allowable in brass plumbing fixtures). For children, by far the majority of exposure comes from dust from lead paint and from soil. The soil and dust gets on the floor, children (1 and 2 year olds) play on the floor and then they put their hands and toys in their mouth. This also impacts them when their brain is at its most sensitive in terms of development.

 

From our perspective, as sportsmen and women, the riskiest activities that we see are things like casting one's own lead weights or reloading. There, again, by far, you are more likely to poison your own child rather than yourself. It takes remarkably little lead dust to contaminate clothes to child to mouth. We sometimes see adults poisoned from hobbies. I should say, however, children like shiny things and they explore with their mouths. We sometimes see toddlers eat lead splitshot - so that is a risk as well.

 

So I wouldn't worry about brass beads from an adult human health perspective, altho I would not let your toddler play with them. I'm much more worried about your lead paint in your house (if you're in the US, many European countries sensibly banned lead paint early in the last century, we didn't ban until 1978). If you are interested in more gory details, you can check out our website: www.maine.gov/healthyhomes

 

eric

 

Is there any data showing increased mortality or toxicology among those who cast bullets or sinkers versus anyone else? I agree, in principle, someone who does this is at an increased likelihood of having more lead in their body than someone who doesn't, just like someone who drives a car every day is at an increased risk of being inside a car which crashes versus an Amish guy who never gets in a car. Saying we "SOMETIMES" see this or that doesn't cut it. We "SOMETIMES" see any manner of unusual things.

 

Keep the kids away from the tying table??? Keep unsupervised Toddlers away from it, yes. FAR FAR more likely they will suffer a hook injury than lead ingestion.

 

Again, I'm not saying lead is totally benign---- just saying that lead, IN THE FORMS WE USE IT IN FLY FISHING is not the evil horrible toxic stuff some people feel it is. You (and your kids) are way more likely to be injured, poisoned, sickened, or killed by just about everything else in the world rather than by lead in fly fishing.

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