orvis + scientific angler+ ross = good or bad?

[atxdiscgolfer 0]

I am not a huge Orvis fan but I definitely respect them for donating stuff to charity, I will say that I had a bad experience with Scientific Anglers since they wouldnt honor their "lifetime warranty" on a rod case that I bought from them that I only used for 6 months. I think that Lamson, Sage, and Rio put out great products and and would recommend them to anyone. Hopefully Orvis will improve SA's reputation and improve their products.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

If Orvis buys Ross, maybe they'll finally discontinue the butt-ugly Cimarron Large Arbor (CLA) reel and bring back the original Cimarron. That would make my day.

 

I've had very good experiences with both Orvis and SA. Orvis replaced three pairs of leaking Silver Label breathables in a row for me, including one pair that was nearly a year old. The SA story is better, though: I once broke one of their lines by trying to stretch it (yes, dumb, I know) and emailed them asking if they knew a way to repair a broken line. They wrote back and said they were so impressed that I hadn't claimed the line was defective and demanded a new one, they were going to send me a line of my choice at no charge. They even paid for shipping. I've bought their lines ever since. That being said, I will not be shelling out $100 for a Sharkskin line - besides being highway robbery, that damned noise they make going through the guides would drive me batty.

 

I agree with those who have pointed out that there are much more egregious examples of overpricing than Orvis's gear -- most notably Sage and Simms.

[Wavey1988 0]

Yeah I gave the hydros a waggle in a field along with the NRX. If I had that cash I would not feel ripped off. With the or is rod at the bottom end I did feel disappointed as the rod was cheaper than the price they sell at, I paid for the name. The Shakespeare kit I have is sold as budget kit but performs above and fittings like reel seats are surprisingly good. I prefer a cheap item surprising me than a pricey one letting itself down.

 

I completely agree with you Piker. All the fly rods I own are Shakespeare and I can't fault them, on finish or fittings.

[Jimr1961 0]

When it comes to anything fly fishing, I always walk out experiencing sticker shock. I think the "elite" mystique that has grown up around this sport has added just as much to the sticker prices as anything else. I find a lump in my throat paying 50 bucks for a six inch chunk of chicken chest.

[iFly 0]

I've been throwing orvis rods for the last 5 or 6 years. Some were not so good rods and some were the best rods I think I've ever cast. Right now my go to rod is a Helios paired with the mirage reel. Love the setup and it was worth every penny. The Helios is super light and casts great. I have the Helios in a 9wt and I've thrown it all day on many occasions and it doesn't kill your arm or wrist to do so. I've done the same thing with a friends 8wt Sage and felt more "fatigue" from that than from my Helios. While I believe the Helios to be one of the top rods on the market, I could do without a lot of the orvis stuff. I was in a shop back in January and they had belts that were $250, jackets that were $900, and pants that were almost $150. Everything they make may not be for every person, but it's hard to argue about some of their rods and reels

[Nate 0]

I wish Orvis would do like some other major manufacturers and extend their rod warranties to their blanks for those of us who like to build our own rods ;-(

[the.atmos 0]

anything that is branded is marked up more than it should be. that's simple capitalism right there. EVERY company does this. when people start bitching, it simply means that they dont think the quality is worth the price... so they go to another company who marks up their products the same 150% of the actual production cost. lo and behold, they like that company more!

my favorite rod is one i bought a bass pro. it's chinese. got it for 80. i know damn well it cost no more than $20 to make it. but i don't bitch about what i paid for it cause i like it.

 

you can use this exact same logic for people who are orvis fanboys, etc

[Peterjay 0]

Why don't you let us in on how you know your rod cost $20 to manufacture? I'm sure we could all benefit from this kind of inside information. Nobody's holding a gun to anybody's head. If somebody wants quality gear and is willing to pay for it that's their business and nobody else's. If an $80 rod is adequate for the kind of fishing you do, then good for you. There are valid reasons why some fishermen use top-end gear, and those reasons have nothing whatever to do with whose name is on the box.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Orvis has some pretty good sales from time to time. That is when I usually buy stuff from them. I have some of their Battenkill luggage that I got almost twenty years ago and although I don't travel a lot, it is really good quality.

I've never had a problem returning rods after being broken, all three times my fault.

 

Kirk

[Crotalus 0]

I think it would be worse if SA and Ross were standalone companies that were gobbled up, but they were already owned by a huge conglomerate and were most likely a very very miniscule revenue source. I also think I read somewhere that SA provided the base lines that Orvis used to enhance into their own lines.

 

One thing that I did notice is that rather than wrapping them into the Orvis family they are remaining as separate brands with a new head guy.

 

I think its way too early to tell, it might be good and it might be bad.

[Chase Creek 0]

OK, soapbox time.

My biggest pet peeve is with flyfishers who preach that you have to spend big bucks to participate in the sport. When the Boy Scouts came out with the fly fishing merit badge, our Summer Camp found a guy to teach the sessions at camp who told the boys they needed $700 rods and $300 reels to get started. Can you guess how many of those boys went home with an interest in even TRYING the sport?? Not many. Fly fishing has a misconception of being a rich mans sport, snd stuff like that doesn't help dispel that. There is a big difference between "need" and "want".

I've never bought a rod for more than $150, and don't intend to. As far as Orvis, I'm sure they make fine equipment, but I don't buy Sage, Scott, etc gear for the same reason I don't buy a $70,000 vehicle. I refuse to pay for the name.

Stepping down now.

[atxdiscgolfer 0]

I agree with you Chasecreek in that the instructor was wrong by telling the kids that they needed a $700 fly rod my guess is that he owned a fly shop or knew someone that did and was trying to get business but what I will tell you is that there is a huge difference in quality of Sage vs Cabelas etc... You can find deals on Sage,Scott, etc... On the internet; i bought a Sage demo rod 2 yrs ago and it works just fine and has a lot better feel than my brand new 3 wght Cabelas 3Forks rod that i got for $50. Think of it like buying the kids first car- most kids get a used dependable car for their 1 st.

[atxdiscgolfer 0]

fyi- i bought that Sage demo rod from my local fly shop for $100

[Will K 0]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, is Simms' brand gear/clothing any less overpriced?

No kidding, that's what I thought as everyone ripped on Orvis prices. Patagonia and Simms are right up there too if not worse. And look at most major names of reels and ask yourself... Do I need a $500 piece of custom colored metal to hold my line? I think alot of price points are too high in this game, but that's what people pay unfortunately.

Wow, you nailed it! I have a lamson that I've had for 25 years I'd guess. It was a gift from my folks when I was a kid. The drag stopped working probably 15 years ago and it just functioned like a click reel - but worked fine and took a beating.

 

Since then i've owned or added several reels to my arsenal - cabelas (rebranded lamson-waterworks), cabelas (not sure who made it for them), colton, fly fishing benefactories and a few others. Those "no name" brands have been awesome and so affordable compared to say an Abel or something.

 

would I love a brook trout colored Abel for my 4wt? yes. I just can not justify that $ on a reel when I can get one that holds up great and works well while being 2-5X less $?

 

Rods and other gear seem similar. You can go nuts (Sage 1, Hydros from Orvis, NRX, Zenith etc) or you can go "mid" price (TFO, Reddington, Cabelas, midwest customs (plug plug - yes in full disclosure, Steve made a 2wt for me this year and it's awesome) colton, and lower price point sage, orvis or offerings like echo) and get an amazing rod.

 

Cycling back to the Orvis SA Ross thing... I dont really see how it hurts the consumer? My suspicion is as someone above noted - it's analogous to Hardy and Grey's or Bowtech and Diamond (for those into archery)...

[the.atmos 0]

Why don't you let us in on how you know your rod cost $20 to manufacture? I'm sure we could all benefit from this kind of inside information. Nobody's holding a gun to anybody's head. If somebody wants quality gear and is willing to pay for it that's their business and nobody else's. If an $80 rod is adequate for the kind of fishing you do, then good for you. There are valid reasons why some fishermen use top-end gear, and those reasons have nothing whatever to do with whose name is on the box.

You're saying exactly what i'm trying to say but in a much better way. I don't know my rod cost $20 to make... you got me. But I do know I bought it for $80 and I do know retailers mark up prices. The Federal Reserve published "Modern Money Mechanics", all the information is in there but heads up, it's a dull read. There's no inside information.

 

It's completely reasonable to say top-end gear is worth the price. I wouldn't be wading in el cheapo waders. I wouldn't want a shoddy line. But when you have people like orvis who slap their name on a simple foam fly box and the price instantly goes up. What makes you think that people at Galvan or Winston don't do the same exact thing? Sure, the quality vs. price in the fly tying/fishing world may be leaps and bounds better than most products, but that's only because it's a cottage industry and is necessary. whether you like it or not, you are paying for the name (and reputation) after a certain price point. after that, it's all about brand loyalty but that's a different topic for a different day.

 

antique split bamboo, custom rods, etc. excluded.